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Denis - i loves you too.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond human measure,

It is our Light, not out darkness, that frightens us.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant,
gorgeous, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God.

Your playing small doesn't serve the world.
There's nothing enlightened about shrinking
So that other people won't feel insecure around you.

We are born to make manifest the Glory of God that is within us.
It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone.

And as we let our own Light shine,
We unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

As we are liberated from our fears,
Our presence automatically liberates others."

Nelson Mandela

~~Carol

Lots of love and closeness on the forum today.

So, anything interesting happen here last night ????

Dear Peggy, I used the plural deliberately so no one might take offense or perhaps think someone was taking a shot at him/her... ;-)

Now, everyone to a neutral corner, count to 10, breathe, enjoy this beutiful post thunderstorm morning and be glad that we worked all of that Pitta fire out yesterday.

Hadi, my ego likes your ego and your yoyo arse mate. Thanks.

And janitor God, it has been "onederful" to read your posts of late.

Sandy and Peggy, please know that I love you both.

This is the most lively fun the Forum has been in awhile and I thank you for making it so much fun to exchange ideas.

Namaste all.

Good morning..listening to you Sandy gives me the impression that this may help you. In A Path to Love, in the chapter of surrender, Chopra lists affirmations of a sort to help clear the mind of the cobwebs. I'm not saying that this is what you should do, however, we all are in lifes game and feel the pains and ills of hurts and resentments. I was poking thru the book and came upon these words because I needed to center myself..again ...and I seem to do this every few days...

Just an example of what it says...

"I'm habing a strong reaction now, but it isn't the real me. It will Pass."

The things I fear most have already happened.

There is something here for me, if I have the awareness to find it.

I guess its just as he says...finding a new belief system.. The old ways of mine are still there struggling to find a better way. Have you read the book? There's not one day that passes where I open to a page in this book and let out a sigh...and say to myself..so that's what it was all about. Perhaps you may enjoy reading it. X

Oh, Barry D-H, one more thing :) i have not got a chance to visit the web site you posted, but intend to do so. thanks. http://www.gardening-uk.com/ehc/index.html

Good morning Hadi, you do a fine job of peace keeping. thanks. keep up the good work. you certainly have my vote. :)

Silvia, i loved Dr. Chopra's sound and laugh techniques, too. it was impossible not to laugh with him :)

Tammy, thanks and i hope you post here again, soon.

Peggy, your admiration is duly noted. :)

Frank, you are the greatest!!!

Which question, Sandy? Is it why did I ask whether you had read any Chopra? If it is that question, I asked because you often give the impression (to me) of not having read or not having understood. I just wanted to know which. You have given me a very full answer.

And yes Peggy, my ego is alive, otherwise I wouldn't be here to participate. The difference is I do not allow the tail to wag the dog. I do not suffer from any paranoia or overt depression. I am, however, a little too serious and don't enjoy myself enough. I do find this entire area of study fascinating and exciting and at times even the mud slinging has it's value. I have felt more recently, however, that there isn't much left here to learn. Time to move into a more serious area of "practice". Some here are far too self important. While I am sure you and others would think that applies also to me, you might note on looking back that I am not obsessed with defending my "opinions" and winning against the views of others. I only ever got irate at Coolfont for being malicious or for attempting to twist my words. I certainly haven't engaged in tearing Bob to peices even if I don't completely agree with some of his comments. I've just let them be or I've added a footnote which I thought might be usefull. By and large I think Bob is pretty close and his recent admissions about the influence of Krishnamurti has helped me understand him a bit better. I think the forum is far healthier now than it was a year ago and part of that is because I and one or two others have promoted respect. Habitual disrespect has to do with inner conflict, and inner feelings of disrespect to the "self". Of self loathing. This disrespect will continue to grow and isolate one from those around them to the point where their only company becomes their own thoughts. their own projections. Their own little world. This self loathing will grow and take over other parts of the human form, causing self abuse, obsessive repetetive disorder, and other behaviour aimed at fosterring shame and further self loathing.

Sandy, " I know only 2 other people as intollerant as you seem to be. I drive them crazy too. Well, one is dead, so i only drive the other one nuts now. Yet i know he would be more miserable if i wasnt around for him to get put out about. I trusted him once, and the other one also. I learned my lesson, as i did with you. You dont have to like me, you dont know me well enough anyways. I would never trust you ag'in either." ~ Isolation is ultimately self imposed. It is based on fear. Once you've finally shut your brother out there can be no one to save you from your ego. Then you may end up like Coolfont. Alone. Unloved. Build bridges sweetheart. Don't tear them down every time someone says something that challenges your fragile and narrow world. Grasp their gifts and grow and expand. become whole. Speaking for myself I would prefer to help than to win or bathe in glory.

There is an old fable told of Buddha, that when he arrived in Paradise the Gate-keeper was very excited to meet him and ushered him to enter. But Buddha would not go in. "Why?" asked the Gate-keeper. "We have been waiting for you for so long. Everyone has been talking that Buddha is coming. Why will you not enter paradise?" And Buddha replied "I cannot enter Paradise until everyone else has entered before me."

Finally, I am not sporting for a fight. I am simply the unwanted, interfering UN peace keeper.

hello Barry Durdant-Hollamby, i so loved your poem that i am posting it again. this time i am going to get it right?? :) they say the 3rd time is charmed? anyway, hope you don't mind?

Now

Search not for the past
For it is behind you
And can never be re-found.
Look not for tomorrow
For it is ahead of you
And forever out of reach.
Live only in today
For a more fragile gift
You will never hold in your hands.

{{{{{{b}}}}}} Namasté

Oh Kitty, thanks! i was interested in the Boy George song title, AK asked for. i'm wondering if it is available for purchase? if it is on album or a single? do they even make singles anymore? :)

Fabi, it is getting closer to your meeting with Dr. Chopra. be sure and tell us all about it. imo you will enjoy seeing him very much. :)

Patrick, i'm sure the question that you have asked here is for Dr. Chopra. i'm sorry he doesn't post here to answer you. he has a web site tho, www.chopra.com. maybe you could post your question there.

Ginger Spice has left! Good that she got out before the biz consumed her to the point that it does others. More about Ginger I think it is used to calm a Veta imbalance does it not? In which case I could use a bite. As I am not sure I say that gingerly. In terms of Giligan's island I much preferred Mary Anne. And that's all I have to say about that.

Careful what you wish for.

franko

Hmmmm.

Was it Denis who wrote about choice? I agree totally! And it is the "choice" that comes with knowledge that I offered Bob. Never once did I say that he should have to follow the rules! You can bet that Maya Angelou is another example of someone who understands the complexities of poetry! I couldn't have picked a better example of what happens when you combine talent with knowledge!

Bob, what is your source for your comments about Beethoven? He was quite popular with the general public and music critics alike. He was first a master of Classical music form and only then did he become a leader of the Romantic Movement by "breaking the rules." Don't tell me that he was unaware of what a circle of fifths is....or the difference is a sonata, a symphony, and a concerto! You really picked a poor example. And it takes extraordinary discipline and control to recreate his music. A good example of someone who was unfamiliar with music theory was the composer Rudolph Davalos. Never heard of him? Exactly.

But Bob has decided that he doesn't want to increase the choices available to him. That is his right! And I will not critique his poetry further in terms of technique. (I still reserve the right to comment on the content!)

Hadi, are teachers respected in your country? That isn't true here anymore in the general public. (Some of the comments here are evidence of that.) Individual teachers, as always, continue to be respected or disrespected by individual students.

Denis, the person who wrote DEAD POETS SOCIETY wrote it about one of his teachers here in Nashville (even though the setting is Vermont). The teacher was known for inspiring a love of the great poets. He was definitely not an "anything goes" teacher. (I don't think you would find Rod McKuen or Edgar A. Guest in his classroom.) The account was highly fictionalized.

Bob, for some people the split infinitive would be distracting and detracting. Not all of them are teachers. And not all teachers would even notice.

Cara, I am glad that you draw out from students their own opinions and feelings. That is the essence of what "education" is about. But I'm sorry that you have to "dummy down" your classes and leave an understanding of the art of poetry to the classroom next door. When I taught fundamental English, I was the only teacher in Nashville Public Schools whose seniors all passed the proficiency test and graduated. And they left my class with at least a basic understanding of literature as an art form.

Peggy, Cara, Bob, Hadi, Sandy, Denis...All of these forum members have egos that are alive and kicking. Anyone disagree?

Denis, the "poem" that you posted doesn't scan as a limerick. Just for the record, a limerick is a form composed of mainly anapestic rhythms. The word pedigogical throws it off. Also, the poem refers to "their" wicker. Their is plural. Since there is no plural antecedent, only her or him would make sense. I'm sorry to see that your wit hasn't improved.

Phoenix, Dr. Raspberry was a pseudonym that I used to pick at Cool Font's language skills. I picked at him because he was picking at almost everyone else. Cool is very bright and I did that just to annoy him. Later, CFP and I were on much friendlier terms and I didn't want to bug him. This was about a year ago. Lots and lots of us used pseudonyms then before Random House made IP numbers available. There are still some folks who try to convince us that they are real and separate. But usually they give themselves away to the nitpickers. ;)

Maddie, I agree with your observation about Hadi!

Carol, you are doing an incredible job of staying focused. I admire you for that.

I wonder when David will return to translate the Portuguese...

Sandy and Hadi, I love you both. But we are making Annemarie's brain hurt. And I love her too. I will drop the subject of poetry and grammar and everyone can take a free pot shot at me. Fair enough?

OK here comes the Chopra police... What's going on here...hehe just a little humour.Speaking of humour in Chopra's Quantum Workshop tapes,he discusses the benefits of laughter and mantras that sound like laughter.When he does it on the tape he cracks me up.Hope you're all having a fantastic evening.

Yesterday was the past, tomorrow is the future, but today is the Present. Everyday is a present, and when I remember that I have a wonderful time. When I think of things that aren't being done, or dwell on mistakes that I and others have made, the focus is not on the Present, and I miss the message I should have received. I'm stopping to listen to the Earth again and find the spaces between my thoughts. Things are not so important in this present moment. love to all and loads of thanks, we are all on this earthly plane and it is the hardest one to work through. Everything is so heavy, but it can get easier. We are born of the devine and we are all of the same as well. Sleep well folks, I hope to post again soon.

Hadi -

1). You still dint answer my question.

2). My heart isnt sweet.

My eyes and heart are no kinder or sweeter than my apendix or any other Part of my body.

You have every right to speak for yourself, on any subject, and i surely wont try to stop you.

You were and are totally mistaken about my reason for posting of the quote by Reynolds Price. I heard him say those words last Friday, and i wrote them in my Journal on Saturday. Wen i came into the forum and read the previous posts, your post saying "The most important thing to detach yourself from is your own ego," was there at the top. I immediately thought of Reynolds Price and made the post. I had no motives other than my belief that his perception is true. Then you began to rant and rave. I responded with my point of view. Now i know you only tollerate those which reflect your own, but that will not alter how i feel. If i dont want to write a whole lot on the subject of UFOs i wont; if i ever do, i will. That goes for anything. I would be intrested in seeing where i said i came to this forum with plans to stayand to learn about Dr. Chopra.. I did get here tho', and here i am. I will express my point of view until i dont wish to anymore, or 'til i die. Whichever comes first. I know only 2 other people as intollerant as you seem to be. I drive them crazy too. Well, one is dead, so i only drive the other one nuts now. Yet i know he would be more miserable if i wasnt around for him to get put out about. I trusted him once, and the other one also. I learned my lesson, as i did with you. You dont have to like me, you dont know me well enough anyways. I would never trust you ag'in either. As i have said before i am not defined by a few words that i post here. Noone is. y' know. wen i think about it i dont know wat kind of responses you expect from others, but obviously you needed someone to nod their head. And i certainly see a whole lotta ego and projecting in your some of your posts. I will just let them be right now - you spoke for yourself. And i spoke for me. Look for a fight with someone else. I am tired of your yoyo arse.

Namaste

Thanks Barry. Your words are like the sound of a familiar stream, bubbling nearby. Soothing and quietening. Now I shall rest.

Greetings friends :-) . . . I thought I would stop in to see how things are perking along here, and I see many new faces - this makes me smile . . . and I also see a vast diversity of souls here . . . complexity of issues . . . much potential for conflict and even more potential for growth in every person as the Universe shifts and breathes around us . . . and so tonight, I am reminded of the wonder of simplicity and living in the NOW . . . I know that as long as I show up and am present - following what has heart and meaning for me in each moment . . . and telling the truth to myself and others - that I have created the space I must have to allow myself to "let go" and truly acknowledge and live in the present . . . and to love . . . and so I love each soul here and I thank you for your passion. Love, b

Okay. Just back. Smile. Is that what you think? That I "made up" the bit about going to have my dinner so that I could think of an answer to your question? Is that how you think, Sandy? Do you think that I am so challenged? These are your projections Sandy. Not my reality. I went to eat, rather late as it happens, and Grace was getting impatient. then I watched some tee vee, "NYPD Blue" and some Movie Review show and a film with John Cleese which I've just given up on. Now I'm back and I haven't thought about it at all. I generally try to stay in the moment. To not project. I always write online, with the exception of one or two songs. But they were posted spontaneously. I wasn't thinking about our exchange, except to know it was not yet explored.The programmes were more interesting, at the time. I don't make things up, Sandy. I can not lie. It's weird, but it's been around me for about seventeen years now. Just don't see the point of being untruthfull. I think lying is weird, but everybody's doing it.
You are deflecting now. Now I stepped on your toes and it's become about me. Bob at least has some respite, : )The finger pointing has shifted simply because someone pointed out your behaviour. It's projection. It is deflection. The first point about ego was from me. Directed towards the posts that had just gone before. You picked an arbitrary quote to deflect from the issue. To not take responsibility. To move on. Just go on! You even used the name of the author, something you derided us for doing, because you said something to the effect of ~ it lends credibility to their pretence. Then you made fun of quoting stuff back at them and they didn't realise. So, you are playing with people. F_cking with their heads. That is ego. Ego will not stay still. It will not focus on a point and will not go deep into anything. It sustains itself with what it can use to justify it's immorality. It pretends to be good, but unfortunately ego's always "hiss". So now you tell me that you never had "kind eyes". So what am I supposed to think? What is it you want, sweetheart? All those things you said about compassion and love and poverty, was that all "bus stop" talk? Letting us hear what we wanted to hear? Is that just for the cameras? I would be very disapointed if that was the case. And I know it is not. But this behaviour pattern "happens" because you are not observing. You are attached to your opinions and they are your greatest obstacle. It is literally like something invisible that motivates you to simply be contrary and if contrary is nasty, well so be it. Opposites. Extremes. Perhaps you think this is just some chat room. It is not. It is Deepak Chopras Forum. It is not a bus stop. Speaking for myself, I came here for a reason, and this world has become and always will be very much a "part" of my life. And I would say about your comments about "getting a life" again I would have to say that is a projection. I have a life and an important part of it has been my time here. I would suggest some practice or some leave for you to decide whether you have come here to further your understanding of Deepak Chopra and his ideas, their roots, and explore them fully for your own benefit, or to try and discredit Chopra and everyone's personal motives and understanding by pretending that you know better than these great men who have influenced us. If you just want company, you are welcome here, but here the agenda should not be focused on Bob, or Hadi, or Sandy, but on the ideas. On the message. On the subject matter at least. Not about personalities. Not about power.

There has been an ongoing hatchet job on Bob and his credibility. Let the guy "be". And Denis is coming under attack! It is projection again and he is reflecting it back. I am sure it never started as anything personal but someone chose to take offense. Denis for me is a fine example of a Human Being. He is individual, brave, giving, well, he's action man. I wanted to use Denis as an example for Jennifer of how to look at adversity. Denis, I can tell has had some serious crises in life and has dealt with them as part of the adventure, instead of as part of the sufferring. He understands the sufferring even more, cause he'll get in there and get his hands bloody. And Denis is a kind man first. Remember that when you read his posts. then realise he is also only human. This is not to say the same does not apply to you. Respect the divinity in every human and then embrace their humanity. That is all you would wish for yourself.

Surely it is here we come to aspire; not instead to hold valuable our ignorance.

Silvia. My status has been re-worked by--da judge. Now it's Janitor God:):) rofl..Life is fun, isn't it?

Annemarie, some of the posts make my brain hurt, too! ;)

Kitty, please share with us ! i know what you mean about it taking some time to assimilate, tho. it did for me, too.

namaste' if we change our thinking , we change our world. just cybering by wanted to let you know i think of you as friends. glad to see bob and an nmarie, busy spot today. i'm listening to JOURNEY TO THE BOUNDLESS on my commute to the city for work enjoying it again. ac

Sandy, on Sunday May 31, Kitty posted the fairies. check it out. :)

still crackin' me up! lololol :)

LOL!! Janitor God:) Now that makes my day. Wonder what would happen if I said something to the guy?

i have seen nary a faerie around, except in my mural - where are they Kitty?

Kitty ~ Thank you! The Fairies were so pretty! Can't wait to hear more about your classes with Deepak!

As much as I love, enjoy and adore ALL of you here at the forum, I must admit that (from time to time) some of the posts make my brain hurt.

Hadi I saw your picture in Kitty's (is it Kitty's?) site and you are cute!

Because of the fact that you ignored my question while at the same time expecting an answer to yours. And you continue to ignore it. Do you need time to think up an adaquate answer Hadi? I dont need to digest, i understood you right off. I said all i want to for now. You go eat - and digest that.

Why has it stayed with you? You answered me.

I've got to go eat. Back later when I've eaten and you've had time to digest.

Not a claim - a fact. Nothing to do with bein' proud.

also, while you are still here - if you are still here - why did you ask me that question about Dr. Chopra's books? You never answered me.

Are you proud of that claim?

heh heh - my eyes were NEVER kind.

Hadi -

I posted a perfectly good quote by Reynolds Price and you were offended. You felt a need to attack it, knowing nothing about it.

"The most important thing is endurance!!!!!?" ~ Maybe for an athlete baby. Trust an ego personality to come up with that one.

is that wat y' said?

For your information the thing that set me off was seeing basically good people whom I consider as friends, hurting each other for the sake of their egos. Are you annoyed that you've upset me, or are you annoyed that I am upset with you.

Well I preferred the sandy from previous days. She had kinder eyes.

I love it when you are patronising and condecending? It's so, common.

Why do you need to tell others how to Live their lives, Hadi? Dont you have one of your own? Get a grip ! or dont - but leave people to be themselves.

You're comin across as a silly little twit in my eyes today Hadi, and i think you oughtta think about sedatin' yourself. Go to bed, or meditate - or watever it is that you do. Better yet, solve the real problem that set you off - and quit blamin' others. And if you dont like my response to your post - TOUGH ! I dont Live to please you.

You see! Talk about a dog with a bone. Now that's irony. You have simply mirrored my point. Confirmed. Thanks. "Get over it child"? Listen to yourself, Sandy. I wasn't making a specific point about you I was pointing out the group behaviour. The negative energy which has a hold of you and makes you say something like that to someone you liked a while back, until they made an unfavourable observation. You're the one who needs to deal with it. I am not engaged in that kind of behaviour. I was parodying. I am merely pointing out that this is your reflection at the moment. Try making this face, instead. : )

Sheesh !

Cripes !

Who the hell made you boss anyways, Hadi?

Hadi - i aint askin for your help, remember? You can whine til the cows come home but people will do wat they damn well please. And as far as my ego goes - it is mine and i will do as i please with it. I know i will probly never become a part of your enlightened elite, and i never had the desire to. So wats it to you. Get over it child - before you grow an ulcer.

as for endurance Mr. Price is not an athelete - he is a parapalegic - and was referring to how he had to get through all he went through. Take a break, before you do.

Sandy: no, no no, mine was better than yours! Look, look everyone. I'm the best. I win. I know better than you. I can out do that one. Yours isn't even ironic! Da da da da da! Oh I know, we'll all pretend to be teachers and enlightened, that'll be fun! Teaching is so much more fun than learning. Because, teachers are in charge! They are respected! And they have power. And they can pretend to know about anything and people believe them. because they are teachers. Teachers are authority. Grown ups, even. (he he) Or they are people simply who know best because of their enormous life experience. And they can make any belief system fit them, instead of the other way around. Oh yes. That's why they are so happy about it all! Now let me quote something really clever just to be more clever and more important and pretend I know something about it. My image is important. "The most important thing is endurance!!!!!?" ~ Maybe for an athlete baby. Trust an ego personality to come up with that one. No I can do better than that. How about "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member". ~ Groucho Marx I believe.

When the literary society has finally proved who is the best authority, perhaps we could return to talking about SOMETHING!. I tried with UFO's. Interesting subject as it happens. But it seems it's much more important for Janitor God to defend his Ego and a few of you ladies to massage your own. Well well. Sorry, but, I just got bored, and it seems I can no longer help. Denis is right, it is time for Coolfont to return. Tammy, Dave, AnneMarie and other newcomers I have failed to mention. Obviously it was good while you were here. Blah, blah blah blah blah. And the primate thought it was more than it was. And the clot believed it was the universe.

Namaste'.

"The most important thing is endurance."

Reynolds Price

The most important thing to detach yourself from is your own ego.

denis -

where's the nit that the nitpicker picked

if the nitpicker did pick nit?

Or is this considered witpickin'?

The lunatics have taken over the assylum.

KATE!

©

Jeff!!!! Someone sane at last! Come back soon. Where are you Kate?!

Interesting discussion on poetry. Just a few more weeks of crazy travelling, and maybe I can spend some "quality time" with you guys. In the meantime, please know that you are in my thoughts.

Namaste, Jeff

This was sent via e-mail from a Forum friend... Crude poetry but witty fun nonetheless.

There once was a witty nitpicker
Who liked form and style ever thicker
But the wit became stuck
In pedagogical muck
While the nitpicker sat on their wicker..

Limericks in the Forum. Better humor Sandy ??? Speaking of the missing, Dave R come home, we miss your haikus

Golly it's been fun poking in here to play today...

;-)

hey Silv! i am where i should be today, too! LOL

hehe! you guys crack me up!! i love it!! :) :) :)

Sandy, CoolFont is where is should be wherever he is today.

Bob I just briefed through your post. I hope I am not out of context, but something stood out "I am God" you are! Glad to hear that from someone else.

I hear ya, Sandy. It's like Anthony Burgess's "A Clockwork Orange"..the book. Never did get it, but as you say, what did it matter?

bob

The devil and his companion were watching as a man who had just found truth was delighting in his discovery.

The devil put something in the man's path so he would find it. His companion asked the devil: "What did you put there for him to find?"

The devil smiled and said: "Organization, me boy. I gave him the means to organize the truth".

bob

bob - okiedokies - if i dont understand somthin y write, again, i will just ask you to try and make it more understandable for me. 'Preciate that. I found many times it is my problem and not the authors' in understanding a lot of past stuff i read. Hamlet was easy for me, but other of Billy's stuff i have yet to get through with the same understanding. I probly never will 'cause i dont have the patience i once had. I tend to now get cranky and give up. I doubt if it matters.

12:30 pm CDT "Heart"-land

"LOVE IT THE WAY "IT" IS!"

How the hell could I have missed this one?:)

And Sandy said: "bob - if you were God, wat would you do different. Dont leave out a thing. I wonder if we have little cell pieces in out bodies that are sayin to one another how well they could run things if they were in charge. Heh heh - if they only knew."

Well, Sandy, I feel that I already AM god--it's local image of itself. And, there are times when this local image sees its true nature as that unspeakable unity. In my opinion there is nothing to change, nothing to do differently. The one who would change is himself being eternally changed. I prefer to follow the flow and let change do what it does best. I regard myself, (the local image), as a fleeting dot of congealed consciousness blessed to have that momentary distinction:)

As regards your ideas about clarity in literature: I feel the same as you. I do attempt to edit my grammar--as far as my abilities in that area allow--and I read what is written silently to see if it is coherent. I would never publish anything which I felt was not coherent. But, ya know, sometimes the reader may not perceive totally what is written. Many times I have read the work of established authors and did not understand all of what they were saying. I took that to mean that my powers of comprehension were not yet at their peak. Sometimes, but not always, it's a matter of the perceptive limitations of the reader. I've had to read certain Krishnamurti works over and over to get their meaning. Was he unclear or was my comprehension limited? Usually, sooner or later, I perceived what he had said. If I perceived it later, it must have been clear all along. It was I who had to grow to the level of his meanings, not the other way around.

I think that applies sometimes. Then, again, sometimes not. Although I have had complaints about style, I've had few about coherence. However, if certain passages thought to be incoherent were pointed out to me, I would definitely examine them and gladly explain or change them.

Bob

Meybe CFP went in search of those who will never disagree with him. Meybe not. There are others to replace him i sure.

I wish CoolFont were here to count my posts hehehehe. Looks like somebody scared him off...

You go Bob ! Pass the salt...

Beethoven is a "onederful" example as not only did he break the rules but imagine being robbed of the ability to hear the music you create. He sawed the legs off of his composing piano and would pound the keys to feel the vibration of the music on the floor as he lay there writing. His towering 9th Symphony and Missa Solemnis were both written when completely deaf and since the Mass could not be performed unless in a church he wrote and sold the Gloria and the Sanctus under different secular lyrics until he found the opportunity to "acceptably" perform the entire work at the king's funeral.

Phoenix..point well taken:) It's hard for me to resist the opportunity for a lively interchange of ideas. It's just another way I learn and grow.

Bob

Metamorphosies--an unpoem

A sheet of moving water, brilliant,
beautiful beyond belief.

Swirling, angry wind crushing all
along its path, relentless, unrepen-
tant, innocent child of nature's
fury.

Body and mind blown blown away
by ancient heat; genetic release; ec-
stacy which shoves aside that les-
ser force of self consciousness.

One brief, shocking moment when
mind meets unity outside of time,
and time bows to eternity and
takes its rest.

Such things as these impose upon
the heart their need to speak through
human lips.

Bob

6/1/98

he he...we ALL are UFO's who think we have identity--bits and pieces of mind and matter momentarily congealed, destined to awaken to our nature as the one.

bob

I am often amused and saddened at once by those who feel they have the keys to the kingdom of art and are given the high calling of deciding whose communications qualify to pass through those doors. Such elitist attitudes have plagued the world since human beings first discovered how to translate feeling and intuited experience into words, pictures, music and sound. What these self appointed guardians of the art god don't realize is that they themselves are often limited by their unwillingness to grow beyond their present training and exposure.

The works of Beethoven were once thought scandalous by some who were entrapped in the forms and styles previous to Beethoven's growth. He was accused of "violating" and "cheapening" the "accepted" forms of musical composition of that time. Thank god the man was stubborn. The thing about form is that form can also change. As human consciousness develops and expands, that expansion is reflected culturally. As human experience and creativity manifest, those manifestations often require new or altered means of expression, or, changes and alterations of current form.

I suspect that, like in so many things, people often identify with their training and become personally attached to their knowledge. We human beings cannot escape our tendency to use anything, just about everything, as a means to psychological security.

Actually, I think the whole debate over what is and is not art is meaningless. If Cara can use the words of someone who is not considered by mainstream thought to be an artist in her classroom, and those words can help some young persons to question themselves; if it helps them discover a desire in themselves to create, then who has the right to label that techinque as inimical to those kids's educational experience? Those kids may not presently be able to identify with some of the current "acceptable" material. If these "lesser" works can help them to become interested in writing, then they will move on eventually toward "mainstream" art. Or maybe not. That these kids were moved at all to read and to question themselves and life has value.

Does a piece of literature make you question yourself? Does it heal you in some way? Does it cause you to question or expand your views and beliefs? Does it make your "soul tingle"? (lol) Those may be the important questions to ask--not whether it meets some esoteric educational requirements.

It is unfortunate to say: "Bob, I find this sentence that you wrote amusing and ironic:["I guess I'm just one who trusts his own competence and his ability to adequately express his views." It contains a split infinitive.]" The truly ironic thing is that that sentence actually and accurately expressed Bob's view. And that fact went unnoticed because of the fascination with a split infinitive. I guess I am saying: You can argue about the style of the plate, the arrangement of the forks and spoons, and the beauty and price of the table cloth if you prefer. I'm hungry. Give me the food.

Bob

Dolores, your quote from Roberts and Jacobs reminded me of something "onederful" I once saw in my all-time favorite movie. Have you ever seen the movie "Dead Poet's Society" ? There is a "onederful" scene around the selected poetry text in which Robin Williams as the teacher, Mr. Keating, begins to have the student's read aloud the introduction to the text on the "correct" structure of poetry. As the student reads aloud Mr. Keating plots out on a graph the "correct" structure of a poem.

Halfway through the reading, Mr. Keating exclaims, "excrement" gives one of his many impassioned speeches on poetry as the soul's song and the need to feel as well as simply read poetry. He then instructs the boys to rip out the introduction page by page and throw it in the trash...

Later in the movie, another instructor asks the boys to read the "wonderful" essay and no one can because it doesn't exist anymore...

Oh Captain, my captain.... indeed. ;-)

"God is Dead" - Nietzche
"Nietzche is Dead" - God

How did we get onto this existential track ?

Oh well, Sandy, Conversations with God Book 2 has some helpful passages that speak to this idea of absolute truth and why the only truth that matters is your own truth as there is no absolute truth in the universe. (Julio and I disagreed on this subject awhile back.) What's true for you and what's true for me may be two different things. And you know what... that's both perfectly OK and absolutely perfect.

Respecting differences and diversity while still contributing to the dialogue is what matter most. How boring a world this would be if we were all like Pringles potato chips, each exactly like the other in every way and stacked neatly in our paper tubes.

We learn and grow through choices and I never ever want those choices to end because we are always in choice -- this way or that, yes or no, up or down -- when the choices end, life itself ends. We're making it all up each and every wonderful moment of our lives !

It's when judgement and "shoulds" come into the equation -- saying something is or is not a certain thing because it violates your or my internal self-imposed rules of style -- that we have most of our disagreements. That doesn't make anybody right or wrong, it is just MY truth on the matter. I may choose to agree or disagree with what is expressed but I will defend your or anyone else's right to express themself in whatever manner they so choose. (YOU GO PEGGY, BOB and COOLFONT !!!) I and I alone decide whether to listen, learn or play.

This general intolerance to opposing viewpoints is the problem "I" have with the religious right in the US (humor -- the Moral Majority is neither) legislating what my values should be. I also have fairly strong truths and opinions about organizations with so-called "motherhood and apple pie" appeal and that many would argue against my sanity for questioning their "good" works. For example, while I can understand the efforts of organizations like MADD, SADD, Action for Children's Television and others. I wonder why there isn't parental control, adult responsibility and authority to monitor the viewing habits and choices of children like our parents did rather than simlpy having an electronic babysitting service. In MY truth, I object to having someone tell me how to conduct my life from the smoking of cigarettes (I don't smoke and dislike it intensely) to making it a crime to not wear an auto seatbelts to legislating the chemicals I choose to ingest into my body -- anything that tries to legislate the behavior of all to control a few causes problems in MY truth and view of the world. Others of you will disagree and that's OK !

Let us not be as sheep on any issue. I would hate to see us led to slaughter because we are unsure of the political correctness (or not) of our truth. Stand up, discuss and be heard...let your light so shine before men (and women). If we can't handle it, why did God bother to give us free will in the first place ? And that's THE TRUTH !!! (hehehehe couldn't resist - gosh these circular arguments can tucker one out...)

Namaste.

Sooooooo - wat's gonna happen next?

Thanks Peggy, Bob, Cara, Sandy et al for a wonderful discussion on poetry. Being a physics/chemistry/math teacher I seldom inquire about 'literary matters' but I felt encouraged by your postings and found the following about the nature of poetry in Roberts & Jacobs "Literature" book.

"Some poems make us think, give us new and unexpected insights, and generally instruct us; other poems arouse our emotions, surprise us, amuse us and inspire us. Ideally, reading and understanding poetry should prompt us to reexamine, reinforce, and reshape our ideas, our attitudes, our feelings and our lives."

This resonates true with my own experience reading poetry.

Oh yeh, did i mention Joe only speaks English. Ernestine speaks some other language, and the alien doesnt speak with words. Joe is blind. And Ernestine is just out of a mental hospital after being their for the last 35 of her 40 years. Wednesday all three are at the bus stop, and the bus aint comin'. Some disease simutaneously killed off everyone on Mother Earth but them, And not even the bodies remain (the alien had nothing to do with it all).

Monday "Joe" meets an "alien" while waiting at the bus stop. Tuesday Joe meets someone he never met before, Ernestine, while waiting at a bus stop. Why should he react differently to each? They obviously come from the same place - these three strangers to one another. Oh - let me get the rule book out. Ooops - i aint got one. Nevermind.

" Poetry ? Ramblings ? Chit-chat ? If we are communicating openly and honestly, it just doesn't matter now does it ???"

denis - it does matter, if someone doesnt receive the communication as it was intended to be received. It matters to me, at the time, at least, if i cant understand wat someone said. Tho i will admit, ultimately it is not a big deal. Guidelines and rules are not synonymous. Style doesnt have to be compromised because of guidelines, and i have not witnessed anyone telling anyone else to forsake their style. Or who they are. Jesus, Joseph and Mary help us all.

and speaking of sense of humor Denis - where the heck have you put yours lately? I rarely glimpse it anymore. Did i tell you the turtle wax joke? Meybe that'll help.

and furthermore ; ) (heh heh) if any one thing in history hadnt been written, or done, that does not determine whether or not something else would have been written or done. The only thing that could have prevented Maya Angelou from writing and being as appreciated as she is, would be if she had not been born. People who break rules and who are successful do not break them and become successful because others have, or because it is fashionable. They do it because they know their craft. Everyone stands on her/his own. People can inspire one another, and bring others down; and as well as i know that bit o facts, i know if one person hadnt done it, someone else would. Life is full o paradoxes. Noone is so special that things wont go unsaid or undone without the paticular people who said and/or did them. Eventually all that needs to be said will be said. All that will be done - will be done.

If Hitler or the Ceasars or Judas, or Michaelangelo or Styron or the guy who stood in front of the tanks in Tiananmen, had never been born, someone else would have or will be someday, who will do the same things they did. Noone is so extraordinary that Life cant be Life without them, I wonder how many with these forementioned people's characteristics or talents have already never been born. Or were also born, yet never did wat the others did because they saw it had been done already, and went on to do something else. Who knows. It's like aliens - whether they exist or not makes no difference in the end. No one Life is a real consequence one way or another. Life will go on - 'til it doesnt anymore.

Hi Sandy, i enjoyed the Whitman poem you posted very much. thanks. i think it was the girlfriend in Phoenix' post.

it don't matter to me!!! (VBS)

Peggy:

Yea, I can see it now
The distant red neon shivered in the heat
I was feeling like a stranger in a strange land : )
You know, where people play games with the night
God, it was too hot to sleep
I followed the sound of a jukebox coming from up the levee
All of a sudden I could hear someone whistling
From right behind me
I turned around and she said
"Why do you always end up down at Nick's Cafe?"
I said, "I don't know, the wind just kind of pushed me this way."
She said, "Hang the rich."

Catch the blue train
To places never been before
Look for me
Somewhere down the crazy river
Catch the blue train
All the way to Kokomo
You can find me
Somewhere down the crazy river

Take a picture of this
The fields are empty, abandoned '59 Chevy
Laying in the back seat listening to Little Willie John
Yea, that's when time stood still
You know, I think I'm gonna go down to Madam X
And let her read my mind
She said, "That Voodoo stuff don't do nothing for me."

I'm a man with a clear destination
I'm a man with a broad Imagination
You fog the mind, you stir the soul
I can't find... co control

Catch the blue train
To places never been before
Look for me
Somewhere down the crazy river
Catch the blue train
All the way to Kokomo
You can find me
Somewhere down the crazy river

Wait, did you hear that
Oh this is sure stirring up some ghosts for me
She said, "There's one thing you've got to learn
Is not to be afraid of it."
Isaid, "No, I like it. I like it, it's good."
She said, "You like it now
But you'll learn to love it later."
I been spellbound - falling in trances You give me the shivers - Chills and fever
You give me the shivers - Chills and fever
I been spellbound - somewhere down the crazy river.

Robbie Robertson ~ Somwhere Down The Crazy River. : )

Phoenix - who was s'posed to be an alien - the reader or your girlfriend?

Bob..I goofed with my fingers...it's CREATIVITY...not Breavity!!!!! whoa....maybe I should have one more cup of coffee!!!!! x

Good Morning...hopefully all came out unscathed from last nights storm......Denis..I hope that there was no more serious damage to anything or anyone in your neck of the woods!!What a nasty storm. By the time it got to souther new england..it had pretty much lost most of its strength. It did however, make one sit up and pay attention!!

Chris....the storms that occur in space must be awesome???!!!

Bob...just be who and what you are....your station in life shouldn't deter you from your breativity and your inner brilliance.... Keep doing what you're doing, and please try not justifying yourself anymore. You're so good at what you do...and it's special.simply becuase it's you. Hadi...Herodotus says that the bird was red and golden and resembled an eagle...and each night it dies and rises again each morning....seems to me..we're all some sort of a phoenix.....regarding UFO'S..well to be very honest with you..it scares the heeby jeebies out of me.....NO....I wouldn't want to be abducted..the thought of it is terrifying to me...and No, I don't even have the slightest notion of wanting to see one. I once went to see a tarot reader with a girlfriend of mine. As soon as she sat down the reader told her that she was an alien...and that 'they' had implanted something in her body so she could be tracked!!! Whoa Charlie...I couldn't grasp the concept!!! I kind of laughed underneath my breath.. each time I see her, and when she says something out of context I remind her that it really doesn't surprise me. afterall..she's from another world...and we both kind of laugh!!

Peggy..would you please tell me who Dr. Raspberry is??

The mornings just fly by too quickly...enjoy your day!! x

The blue pencil is permanently put away. I am very sorry that your sense of humor seems also to have been put away pegs... Pencils and swords have been made into ploughshares.

As for the current discussion of artistic guidelines for poetry v prose, my vote is for content as content is all that really matters and how and whether that content moves someone.

Ntzoche Shange wrote a marvelous series of "poems" in the 70s which became a long-running off-broadway play/poetry reading -- "For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Isn't Enuf". It broke all the rules and without this brave rule breaking we might not hear the voice of Maya Angelou and other poets who break the rules so beautifully.

IMHO, it is the rule breakers of their time in everything from Rap to hip-hop to ska to classical music that make this world vibrate and breathe and dance to the music of millions of new voices...

I'm not sure the so-called "poems" of Rumi would fit into "guidelines" as he probably didn't know or care they existed in the 12th century but boy do his words move me. Interestingly enough, except for one or two passages -- two roads diverged, I took the one less travelled -- Frost never did much for me.

City of Angels moved me to tears, Bulworth confused the heck out of me. I love most of what Bob writes in his "poetic style" but have also found myself cringing at the poetic stylings of him and others. At least it gets a reaction and moves me.

Does that make any of us right or wrong ? Seems to me a control issue. My truth on this issue (since there is no such thing as absolute truth) goes something like this...

This is my way
what is your way ?
THE way doesn't exist.

Poetry ? Ramblings ? Chit-chat ? If we are communicating openly and honestly, it just doesn't matter now does it ???

Namaste

Peggy~RE: In the meantime, I am glad that the discussion here will inspire a discussion in a classroom tomorrow. But will that discussion educate and inspire? Will it leave her students with a better understanding of art? Will she raise the standard of art or lower it? And will the students ever have a chance again to know the difference?

My students are allowed to express their perception as to how one's art moves or does not move them . The place for the mechanics are in the next room. The main purpose of my room is to lower anxiety levels . The finest way to do this is to allow one to enjoy the reading material of their choice , to interpret it on their individual level of receptivity. Bob's work obviously seems tospeak to that level. Interestingly , all who have been exposed to it arrive at a peace and continue a discussion on Being , perhaps some poetry and prose are meant to achieve just that ... A means to examine where one is at that moment in development. His offerings set off phenomenal discussions , and word of this has brought other faculty into the room to participate in the discussions that spin off from it. A better understanding of art? I would hope so . A better understanding of Self ? I know so . Meanwhile , I choose not to strain at gnats and swallow camels. These days , I would rather be happy than right while reading the forum. Light to you , Cara

Sandy great poem!

What spirtual guide do you suggest for us that focuses on how to get in touch with the spirit inside? Some suggest the bible. What do you suggest?

I believe that Siskel and Ebert are on in two minutes and that although they disagree on many things, both have a grasp on the art of cinema. ;)

Hadi, love, I am an alien! For tonight, at least, I am "a stranger in a strange land."

I believe there is intelligent life on other planets even in our galaxy. I believe that math and, by extention, music are commonalities. I believe that scientists limit themselves too much by assuming that other beings would have to be carbon based. I believe in the potential for hundreds or thousands of undreamed of senses. I believe in time travel and that it happens frequently even to ourselves. We may not realize it because we seem too often to be trapped in our perception of what time is. I believe in objects that produce three demensional shadows that we cannot yet perceive and I believe in shadows that are shaped like those original objects. I believe that it is possible, if not probable, that all possibilities exist simultaneously. I believe that celestial occurances described in ancient texts and scriptures may also have been nearby spacecraft.

I have seen two UFO's several years apart, in two different parts of the world, and in two different forms. Someone was with me the second time. No one was with me the first time. I have no idea if they were alien.

Along the lines of Cara's thinking, I believe that what seems to be supernatural is actually quite natural.

I do not yet believe that each of us has a guardian angel. I do not believe in channellers who do it for profit. I do believe that Spirit can move and speak through others and that such things are the norm rather than the exception.

I believe in kismet.

Thanx Sandy,that poem was great,the truth over whelming felt good to read such well written scripture.That was nice!!!!!Couldn`t` have said it better myself. Josie

Well chosen, Sandy! Oh to be able to write like Whitman!

Every form of art has its guidelines. And when these guidelines are obviously unknown to the creator of the work, then so often the work is lacking to the trained eye or ear. The "anything goes" approach to art produces monkey paintings, awkward dances, and musical compositions that are a dime a dozen. But once you master the "basics" and then choose to strike out on your own, you stand a chance of creating a work of art. That is what produces a Whitman, a Van Gogh, a Gershwin! I'm sure that velvet Elvis's communicate to some people. That doesn't make them art.

But if you don't care if it is sterling and fine, if you don't care if the piano is tuned and the fingers adept at technique, then have fun! But don't delude yourself into thinking it is art. Don't bring your own definitions to the words and expect an appreciative, intelligent, and enduring audience.

Ahhhhh - i loves Walt Whitman stuff - so here y' go:

ANIMALS

I think I could turn and live with animals,

they are so placid and

self-contained;

I stand and look at them long and long.

They do not sweat and whine about their condition;

They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins;

They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God;

Not one is dissatisfied --- not one is demented with the mania of owning things;

Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago;

Not one is respectable or industrious over the whole earth.

Walt Whitman

The day when I will meet Deepak Chopra in person is closer,actually five days. What I can tell about knowing Dr. Chopra´s writings and works, is that my personal story has also a B.C. and A.C. the difference is that mine is before Chopra and after Chopra.THANK YOU A LOT. Fabi :)

Hadi - you ARE in space. We all are. Everything is. Dint y' know that? Where did you think Mother Earth resided? Now you need wonder no more.

bob - if you were God, wat would you do different. Dont leave out a thing. I wonder if we have little cell pieces in out bodies that are sayin to one another how well they could run things if they were in charge. Heh heh - if they only knew.

As far as your writing is concerned, as long as it lives up to your expectations consistantly throughout your life, i expect that is all that should matter to you. I wrote wat i wrote to you just to let you know that clarity is usually an important factor for people who write, and that intrestin stuff can be even more intrestin once the writer has embraced every resource available to write as clearly as possible (i admit i aint doin' that myself right now, which should be clear to all who read this). It is not a matter of following rules - i have never done anything and held it up against another Life for inspection. I do edit most of wat i write tho' and i rarely put it out for another to see before i decide i have been as clear as i can be. It is pointless (for me) to write something and leave it to everyone elses' interpretation. I too write exactly wat the energy creates in my mind, and as i write i gain more energy - meybe that is wat is meant by momentum - i wont bother trying to figure it all out. Yet, afterwards i do a check of wat i have written, and try and determine if it made sense. Not simply to me, but if others in a variety of living conditions and with different educations will understand also. I do this because i do not JUST write for me - i write because i think i have something that needs to be said and i want people to understand it. I want to be clear. That is why i am not leaving my last post to you as is, without adding wat i have just written. If i were to say to you that a paticular thing you have written was not clear to me i would hope it wouldnt offend you, and you would care enough about wat was on your mind to re say it so i could understand. This goes for everyone of us. We are in a forum so i expect we want everyone who reads wat we write to undersatnd wat we're tryin to say. Set rules have nothing to do with that.

Click below for a map of secret underground UFO bases. Note there is one in the southwest corner of Arizona. The desert is big out here! :-)

UFO Bases

If you have Real Audio, here is a site that broadcasts a late night radio talk show that deals with fun topics like this:

Art Bell

Right this moment, he is discussing the predictions of Nostradamus.

Hadi's dream reminded me of a movie I saw a long time ago on PBS, The Lathe of Heaven. Whatever the main character dreamed would come true. This was causing him a lot of anguish. He decided to try to do something constructive with his dreaming, so went to bed with the intention of dreaming that the countries of the world were no longer at war with each other. When he awoke, he found that the earth had been invaded by aliens and the countries of the world were united in fighting the invasion off!

Thank you Jeff. In reading back through the posts I saw your comments.

Peg. I re-read your comments while scrolling back through the posts. On my second reading I felt your sincerety more. I really do believe you are speaking in my best interests, and no, I would never regard you as an enemy. I understand how you feel because you are a teacher and you see through a teacher's eyes. Your passion is admirable and probably assures that your students will not escape a good, quality education from you.

If you will, I would like you to try to see things through my eyes.

Suddenly my awareness is heightened. I know something is about to appear in it, but I don't know what it will be. I become very quiet, listening. The words begin to come as I write them down. What is informing those words is overwhelmingly loving and intelligent. The words themselves don't seem adequate to me, but they are all I have. I don't personally know what the next word will be, and somehow it doesn't matter because I trust what is happening.

Often when the words are finished and I read them, I am totally surprised at the energy they generate. Energy. It is energy behind the words. There is no way, when this happens to me, that my mind could possibly remember rules about style and some of the other things you discussed. It is not possible to fit that kind of inspiration and energy into any psychological system of rules. Such focusing would of itself, destroy the attention which allows the material to flow.

This is not the case all the time, but it is what usually occurs. I have never desired to be a poet nor a writer. Writing is just something I do because it seems natural, like breathing. It's not that I am settling for "less than I can be", it's that my being functions adequately as it is. I don't have the desire to attain anything socially, to reach a social or educational ideal or level. I appreciate the Walt Whitmans and Rumis of the world, but they are not what I am or aspire to be. I am a janitor, a common laborer. This type of work is mechanical. The body knows how to do it, so my consciousness is free to roam and glimpse what it will without the barriers to attention other types of work would require.

There's no need for me to develop anything because I am not going to use it anyplace. I publish here and elsewhere soley for the enjoyment of sharing what insights have come to me with others who may or may not be interested in them. That is as far as it goes.

The praise of others is their own priviledge and I neither encourage it nor discourage it. It is what they feel, and they have a right to feel it. Such praise does not affect what I write, and it doesn't affect my own view of my self worth. I am neither flattered by comments nor disheartned by criticism.

You mentioned the "lowering" of the standards of art. In my opinion, the educational environment is not the sole privince of art, nor is that art less in its power and meaning, which does not meet with educational standards. The province of real art is the human heart, not the rules and procedures of institutions. There is room in the human experience for both that art which arrives through certain protocols and forms, and for that art which arrives through other channels. No one has within themselves the authority to determine what is and is not art or how art should or should not take its birth and live its life.

I hope you understand that I am not trying to be more than I am or trying to set myself above the prevailing social beliefs about the requirements for acceptable writing. I just feel that I don't belong to that sector of society and feel no need to adjust myself or my writing to its credentials and expectations. I really appreciate your concern Peggy, and I honor you for it. I hope you can see my point of view as I have tried to see yours. Thanks for your attention and intentions.

bob

if you want to experience other dimensions, then be here now. for it is only in the NOW that one will be everywhere at once. to be here now is to live in the moment....this moment.....Knowing that it is all there is.....and all that there will ever BE. goodnight dear friends, love to you.

LOL Hadi! When it comes to aliens, I tend to favor the theories of John A. Keel and Whitley Strieber. In olden times, people were visited by angels, faires, leperchauns, etc. In modern times we are visited by aliens. We equate the phenonema to our knowledge of the time. This is the space age, so we see space craft. They both believe this is more a demensional or consciousness thing, and Strieber prefers the word "visitors" to aliens.

If I recall, there was no record of UFO sightings in their present form until the atomic bomb was dropped. There have been sightings of airships since before the airplane was invented, but not sleek flying saucer and space craft types.

I believe I have heard a rumor about people with big asses...;)

Bob, of course you can decide to call what you write anything that you choose. As I said, I was not interested in getting you to follow "the rules." It is a little sad that you settle for less than you can be. But it is understandable. And I am glad that you derive satisfaction from writing.

Walt Whitman was brilliant and a "rule-breaker." And his poetry was trashed when it was published. Who knows?

In the meantime, I am glad that the discussion here will inspire a discussion in a classroom tomorrow. But will that discussion educate and inspire? Will it leave her students with a better understanding of art? Will she raise the standard of art or lower it? And will the students ever have a chance again to know the difference?

As for my own writing, I sold my first pieces over thirty years ago. They were poetic garbage. But they must have communicated with someone. I would pay many times over if they had never been published. My highest compliment came when I was asked to read from my essays to the Nashville members of the National Council of Teachers of English and they, in turn, asked me to read and speak with their classes about the art of writing.

By the way, I don't think that poetry is better than prose or vice versa. But a literate teacher will always know the difference in the two.

Bob, I find this sentence that you wrote amusing and ironic: "I guess I'm just one who trusts his own competence and his ability to adequately express his views." It contains a split infinitive.

Sandy, I would be honored to read anything you have written. (Talk about a rule breaker!)

Hadi Re: Aliens/frequency ...I totally agree with you .... I believe this as surely as I believe that there are states and levels of consciousness that are able to discern , see , and experience events that "third dimension " people are not privy to. Opening oneself and receptivity to the thought that "anything is possible" ushers in what this level (third dimension) term magic , mystical or miracles , while to others who have attained , they are perfectly "natural" happenings. My outer experience is a direct result or mental equivalent of my inner level. This is the good news ; That through the stillness , "IT" does the work , transforming the discord into the harmonious. But of course you KNOW that , don't you.... Smiles and hugs to you.

Well, I'm off my planet and into the dream dimension now. Last night I dreamed of many Alien crafts in the skies. It was midnight, New Year, 2000. It's a recurring dream. Now, Jung and Freud would have plenty to say about that.

Goodnight all. Thank you for your crisp perspectives.

Small, ass but with big feet. Helps with the blance:)

The latest from the interplanetary religious council is that god, being lonely, wanted to play a good joke on himself. So he dreamed up the universe and humanity and pretended they were different from himself. Now he regrets that move because he's pretending they are ignorant disobediant, but feels too guilty to ask for a recall of himself.

And human beings want to know why WE are crazy.....

So you must have a big ass too! : )

Is that Hadi? Yo brother...It's been a long time. Don't tell anybody, but I'm from the planet inhaleno...me and clinton:)

Thank you Hadi, Cara and Sandy for your statements. This is what is so unique about the forum: There's room for diversity of thought, opinion and feeling:) May we all continue to realize the fortunes of freedom and enjoy them.

bob

I wonder if it's this lonely in space?

Hi Bob. You're not an Alien, are you?

The latest science revelation is that "space" is wet. Not dry. There's lots of water up there and our water and you and I all came from water from out there. From a Super Nova, I believe. No doubt Chris could clarify. So that's how God did it! He threw water on a smouldering rock.

Thank you Sandy. What you say is true I'm sure. To add to that, I think that not everyone needs to engage the educational models of self expression to be good at it. In fact, with some it would only hinder them. Not all things need to be "improved" because they are already complete in their "raw" state. I guess I'm just one who trusts his own competence and his ability to adequately express his views. It's one of those grey areas of thought in which society vs the individual. I have seen nothing so far to indicate to me that society's opinions about this matter are more substantial than my own. But I remain open, watching--just in case.

bob

It's only a theory, so I hope no one will get too worked up about it.

I have a theory that most Alien encounters occur in a different dimension. That Aliens vibrate at a different frequency which is not accessible to our normal consciousness.

In the entire time I have been coming to this forum we have never discussed UFO's. I know Tom flies one to work every day but what about the rest of you guys? I've done a fair amount of research on the subject in my time and am often intrigued at the similarities to spiritual experience. Especially in the case of Alien abductions.

ga...

oops ... classroom tomorrow.

Bob ~ It is not often that I find myself at a loss for words . I have read your lengthy posting on academic criteria and the influence with which it governs some... and I cannot think of a thing to say with the exception of :

I am sitting here with the broadest smile on my face.

Thank you again for educating us ; You are an educator in the truest sense of the word. ( I think . ) Your posting should generate much discussion in the class tomorrow ! Love , Cara ~

In case anyone was curious to know what the name of the song by Boy George that AK was looking for (which was played at Seduction of Spirit in Goa, India in 1997), it was Hare Krishna

Jeff - I did have a laptop. I'm back home - yesterday was the last day. Yea, it was great, but kind of intense after a while. Lots of info, now I think I need about a week of silence (no such luck) ;-)

Carol, thanks for your work. I don't know how to write these things properly yet! The poem is actually titled "Now"- the first line begins with "search not for the past...etc". Sandy I've e-mailed you the English Healing Centre address- there must be some device here that stops html being posted? The EHC is a brand new site, so we are only just beginning to get registered with searches. I think infoseek has it now. Wish us luck... I'll try again with our address. It is http://www.gardening-uk.com/ehc/index.html Great stuff Barry

Bob: Very much enjoyed your last post. Very much agree with your sentiments regarding accepted norms in art and literature. One of the great problems with films today is that they've got a few so called experts writing "about" screenwriting and they've reduced it to a rigid product with fixed shape, length and weight. If you stifle expression it cannot be art. Never pay too much attention to your critics.

Peggy: I think you've made some excellent points. I think if someone wants to make a proffession out of writing in todays world, they'd better study the formats and structures etc. Especially if they've got nothing to say. For me, having something to say is the most important part of any kind of creative writing, and I think Bob's got plenty to say. And I wish him well. We can't have enough publications on these esoteric subjects.

Barry - i couldnt find the English Healing Centre on the web. Wat is the web site address?

Kitty, Thanks for the fairies! Sounds like you're enjoying M-B Medicine. Do you have a laptop with you?

Namaste, Jeff

Ramblin here - y' may wanna skip it.

bob - i understand where you're at in your last post. I also understand wat Peggy said. You are writing for the joy of writing - and the act of feeling and writing - without defining wat you write or putting it into any specific catagory. You are also trying to convey wat you feel, in writing, to others. Wat Peggy seems to have said in part, is that if you (we all) become further educated in poetry and lots of forms of writing, then we can speak our minds more clearly. I think that is the goal of everyone who writes and puts wat they write out for others to see. To be heard with an "ear" that will have no doubt about wat y' said. To be crystal clear. Wouldnt y' just hate for a teacher to present something you wrote to a classrom and ask the students to explain what you meant in such and such line, and find it has been interpreted completely wrong by the teacher, and s/he related this interpretation to his/her students? I heard Peggy lettin' y' know that you can become more adept with what you write, if you want, and possibly make a craft out of it. Not to sell or anything, since you expressed you dont want to sell it, but for your own enjoyment and the enjoyment of those who do read it. Yes, people enjoy what you write at this moment, yet if you learned more, then you and them and others could benifit more. The more you learn, the clearer you can become.

I have had the experience of people telling me wat they thought i wanted to hear, rather than telling me wat i needed to hear. I used to write poetry and prose and freethought, some was very good. The rest i thought was good at the time, and the people i showed it to told me how wonderful it all was. Then came the day wen i saw that most of wat i had written wasnt saying wat i meant it to, at all. I felt so stoopid for believing what nice things people had told me. I still feel stoopid, and i trust noone to be honest with me if i were to write poetry and prose and freethought ag'in. Nomatter how well educated i could become in writing, i will never trust wat i write ag'in to be "good." If someone would complement me for something i had written i would never believe them. I will always doubt wat i create. I will always doubt my own judgement. I never asked people to be nice about wat i wrote, they just thought it was good manners i s'pose. All i wanted to do was be clear and people told me i was. They lied, just to be nice. Some friends. I can never enjoy writing because i always doubt myself now. If i were to do it over ag'in i would only show my stuff to Peggy. At least she would be honest. Straight forward isnt a bad thing. Kindness can be destructive stuff at times.

Give in to compromise,
and you are a candidate for mediocrity

Richard Bach

oh bob, i'm embarr - assed!! ;) LOL!
Thanks, to you all, again. you made my day! :) :) :)

Cara - Jan - Silvia - i loved your comments to my post. thanks!! :) And love to you, All!
yes,Silvia, it is draining and so unproductive :( i feel so silly when i catch myself doing it.
i am still using Jan's 12 Symptoms of Inner Peace and #7 is a biggy.
A loss of ability to worry. ??

ONE BIG FAT HUG FOR CAROL

{*{*{*{*{*{* CAROL *}*}*}*}*}*}

Hi everyone. Thought you might like to read a poem that I find helps many of the people I work with (cancer sufferers mainly) - to get into the present moment. Hope you like it:- Now Search not for the past For it is behind you And can never be re-found Look not for tomorrow For it is ahead of you And forever out of reach Live only in today For a more fragile gift You will never hold in your hands If you want to know more about us or our non-profit site, come visit us at:-English Healing Centre

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Silvia (S@W)@207.34.182.79 said:

Carol that is save instead of safe in the first sentence below and Peggy you can lead a horse (me) to water but you can't make him drink!I'm trying!

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Silvia (S@W)@207.34.182.79 said:

You're welcome Carol. I believe the ones who you worry about and try to safe are the same people as you,in~~~literally/in different form. It's ok to feel that way (anxious), I often do too. I think it's a part of the process of growing into oneself. When I get fully confident in the abstract concept of the universe/nature/life and how things function/cycle I will feel more relaxed. hehe. In the meantime I constantly worry about things...it's a bit draining to worry isn't it.

Peggy Do you realize that you are responsible for my improved spelling skills?hehe

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, mb (mbosi@erols.com)@207.172.251.80 said:

Hey Peggs!!!!
Really good to se ya here. Peace friend.

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, jan (terramere@aol.com)@152.163.232.26 said:

Bob: A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Carol: You are a nurturer by nature...a caring Mother bird tending to the fledglings in your nest.
Denis: Thanks for sharing your bliss!
Josie: @¿@ good to see you again!
Happy Sunny Sunday All!

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, ann carol (fishermen3@webtv.net)@207.79.35.34 said:

P>S> BOB LOL back to you and continue your good writing Peggy i learned from your post also. i try to write i'm not skilled at all and i appreciate your comments to bob. i especially love the mask and the act of seeing. LOL

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, ann carol (fishermen3@webtv.net)@207.79.35.34 said:

greetings all, keep posting fellow kansan where are you? looking forward to a peacefilled day and so it is. namaste`ann carol

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Kitty (k_morel@msn.com)@153.35.206.124 said:

Peggy - I attended a talk by Debbie Ford yesterday. If you get a chance, I recommend it!

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Kitty (k_morel@msn.com)@153.35.206.124 said:

Annemarie - as you suggested...
Joy, happiness, and dancing fairies for you all ... ©

(\o/)   (\o/)  (\o/)      
(/|\)    <\    (/|\) 
 < \            / >

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Cara (cara@fmis.net)@206.148.71.22 said:

Carol You are a very loving person. I am glad you care. I always see the LIGHT in your postings... Love you ,Cara

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Cara (cara@fmis.net)@206.148.71.22 said:

...and the beat goes on... and on....and on.....

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Carol (Ca@foolish pride?)@152.163.197.242 said:

it doesn't matter how many spiritual books i read, i still *worry* about the people i love. :) i still want to try to *protect* them. i still rush in to *save* them whenever i can. :) i guess it is foolish pride or just habit. one way or the other it is just my way. i wonder if i will ever be able to place all of it in the hands of God? or even if that is what i am supposed to do? i am such a doer kind of person. it is another sign of my Sufi Ways. :) this is so personal, i wonder why i am posting this? i guess to hear your comments? why else? :)

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Carol (NEVNO96@aol.com)@152.163.197.242 said:

Jeff - Thank you for your kind remarks, and a special thanks to Peggy - Silvia - Denis - Phoenix

i had a onederful day with my Mother yesterday. she was doing well. i am just trying to do the best i can. trying to stay in the moment and not worry ahead. although, i must admit, it is hard when you can see the handwriting on the wall.

Denis - your day sounded *onederful* :)

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Peggy (hill@home)@207.223.182.10 said:

Denis, how clever of you to change your mind about commenting on my errors after I had pointed them out for all to see. How like you!

When I retired from teaching, I swore that I would not pay attention to spelling, punctuation, and grammar ever again. Except for a brief stint as Dr. Raspberry (before your time), I have kept my word. Dr. Raspberry afforded me the opportunity of taking pot shots at Cool Font's vulnerability. Dr. R. was as mean as his inspiration!

I am not a good speller and never have been. As a teacher, I kept a dictionary close at hand. As a grammarian, I am better than most. The mistakes that I pointed out in my own writing were the result of carelessness in making a change. If you want to find more errors, I have made many. But I don't think that you really want to go nose to nose with me on language skills. (Your post addressed to me left out a comma. Should I have "let you slide"?)

You are right. They don't make editors like they used to. Before I became a teacher, I was an editorial assistant for the United Methodist Publishing House.

Shall we put down our dueling blue pencils? I'd rather read the mistakes than to read endless apologies for mistakes, my own included. I am posting this whether or not it meets with your editorial approval.

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Peggy (hill@home)@207.223.182.10 said:

Daniel, it is for you and Random House to determine if your posts are appropriate here. Deepak Chopra, however, has indicated that the Maharishi has had a profound influence on his thinking and I am aware of at least one other person here who is interested in TM. I am not she.

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Peggy (hill@home)@207.223.182.10 said:

Bob, since you have expressed an interest, I will say that most of what you have posted at the forum as poetry, is poetry, good, bad, or mediocre. However, in the post with the warning at the beginning, what you wrote at the end was not even in recognizable poetic form. It is in the form of prose. If you don't believe me, LOOK at the poetry of Rumi. LOOK at the poetry of Robert Frost! It is not in a semi-paragraph style! Neither is the poetry of any other poet with which I am familiar. Another test is to see how it scans. What you wrote in that post doesn't have the characteristics of poetic rhythm.

If you are serious about your poetry, then don't look to a dictionary for a definition! READ good poetry! Observe how a poem LOOKS on a page! Read aloud and HEAR the difference in poetry and prose!

A couple of weeks ago, people responded only to the criticism that I had of what you had written. They overlooked what I had to say about how gifted you are. Why do you think they did that? What lens where they using to read my post? Are you reading with a different lens?

Somewhere recently, I read a quote that I think has something to do with the exchanges here about your writing. I wish I could remember who wrote it and the exact wording. "To praise everything is to praise nothing." That idea was something I learned before I ever finished student teaching. Some teachers never learn it.

I can understand if you don't wish to publish other than on the internet. That is not what is keeping you from becoming really good. I have heard of "damning with faint praise." Some here damn you with easy praise.

There is no way that writing poetry can be taught to someone who is not a poet. ( That is why I don't comment on most poetry posted here. It is not worth a comment.) Your poetry, on the other hand, holds some real potential. What do you know of motion and countermotion within poetry? What do you know about moving from the specific to the general? What do you know about poetic form? Does someone calling your poetry "brilliant" mean anything if that same person (a teacher!) puts down the intelligensia? Even her perception of what that word means is lacking if I am to judge from her previous posts!

I would recommend two things to you. The first is the movie EL POSTINO for inspiration. The second is a book which I hope is not out of print. It is called HOW DOES A POEM MEAN? by John Ciardi. I recommend it to you so that you will have some understanding of the fundamentals of your art!

Don't misunderstand, Bob. I am not saying that you should always "color within the lines." But open your mind to learning again!

If you want me never to comment on your poetry again, Bob, all you have to do is ask me not to. It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says I should be saying here or whether or not criticism is appropriate to this forum according to someone else's idea of what this place should be. And it doesn't matter to me if someone says that I am out of line. You and I are alike in that way. I am not your enemy! Do you understand?

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Tammy (routley@rttinc.com)@139.142.10.106 said:

Hi everyone---- please would you accept my apologies for the ramblings of a sleep-starved madwoman. Have you ever been up really really late writing and musing and thinking "boy is this stuff ever profound!"? Well, I reread what I wrote and you would have to be me to understand that stuff. I was writing about my dreams and the coincidences that have happened in my life; and how I feel guided by my dreams and by the loved ones in my life that have passed on. I tried to put a poem in there too, but as I haven't mastered the art of spacing it all comes out funny and mixed up.----Ginette, I also am hoping to find a doctor around my area familiar with ayervedic (sp?)medicine, I would like to detoxify my body as I am quite overweight and seem to be dependent on food. I have read Perfect Weight and would like to talk to someone well versed in the subject.----Hope I've cleared some things up.------Good Night All, Tammy {:-)

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On Sunday, May 31, 1998, Silvia (S@W)@207.194.173.154 said:

That sounds nice Denis.

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Denis (dcampbellj@earthlink.net)@38.12.192.39 said:

Bliss today -- swimming in the pool holding my love on my lap and her two small children on hers as we circled round in a perfect circle under a beautiful sky and then later all of us huddled together on a blanket listening to the Nashville Symphony play Gershwin in the Park under the moon and stars. Friends, it just doesn't get any better than this !!

Goodnight my lovelies...

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Denis (dcampbellj@earthlink.net)@38.12.192.39 said:

Daniel, this is not a TM room, I don't know of anyone here who converses regularly with the Maharishi and frankly, e-mailing your entire story to strangers, while I am personally empathetic to anyone who feels wronged, is not helping you get closer to the resolution you seek. Your answer lies in another room.

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Jeff (jeffhart@concentric.net)@207.155.169.19 said:

Thanks Jan, Denis, Peg, and especially Carol for sharing those wonderful stories!

Carol, I think it's wonderful that you found the courage to really love your Mother in such a way. I treasure most the honest words I had with my Father while he was still alive. I know it brought us closer even if it did create some initial discomfort. I wouldn't trade those moments for anything! what a wonderful thing to be able to be true to our loved ones and ourselves at the same time. Those are the risks we all need to take to fully live this precious life we have been given to live on this earth. What a wonderful gift you gave your Mother, and yourself! May we all have such courage to love!

Bob, I will be forever amazed at and grateful for the depth our your creativity! Thank you for sharing your beautiful gifts!.

Namaste, Jeff

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.51.180 said:

Denis:

J

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.51.180 said:

Phoenix: :
1. A legendary Arabian bird said to set fire to itself and rise anew from the ashes every five hundred years.

I don't know much about antiques.

2. a person or thing of surpassing beauty or quality.
3. Dawn light at Chopraville.

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Cara (cara@fmis.net)@206.148.71.31 said:

Jan~ That is a lovely presentation... Would you mind e-mailing a copy to me ? In my attempt to copy/paste to e-mail, the lines always come out staggered. Is there some way to correct this once pasted ? I used "wrap long lines " to no avail. I have a few friends that are going through a challenge to their legitimate and spiritual right to health , who would so enjoy reading this. Thanks Jan!

Bob The definition of poetry found in the dictionary ... I find my personal preference in the words ... "ideas or emotions in a style more concentrated, imaginative and powerful than that of ordinary speech or prose ..." I could not have described your offerings in finer words... See? I told you that you were a poet! Love and Light to You , Cara

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Daniel Asse (danasse@cancun.com.mx)@200.33.188.104 said:

I need Help URGENT!!! I WAS A sidha in Maharishi TM technique PLEASE GIVE ME AN E_MAIL TO EXPLAIN DETAILS: E-mail danasse@cancun.com.mx

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Tom G (photog03@sprynet.com)@199.174.219.191 said:

Oops! Forgot to put the closing bracket on my "close bold" command. Sorry, the bold was suppose to end after "success."

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Tom G (photog03@sprynet.com)@199.174.219.191 said:

John: Here is a link to Dr. Chopra's home page. Scroll down to the bottom of his page and click on The Global Network For Spiritual Success for information. I didn't link directly to the page as there is a lot of other good stuff at this site to explore.

Chopra

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, bob (VSpen67816@aol.com)@152.163.207.138 said:

Because of Peg's comments and the comments of others, I began wondering what poetry really is, so I looked up the word in the dictionary (god forbid). The definition is interesing. Personally, it's just writing to me but I have to call it something:) Anyway, I'm still no more sure now than before I looked the word up. I guess it's a matter of perspective. Here's the definition:

Poem --an arrangement of words written or spoken; traditionally a rhythmical composition, sometimes rhymed, expressing experiences, ideas or emotions in a style more concentrated, imaginative and powerful than that of ordinary speech or prose: some poems are in meter, some in free verse.

Of course all this is trivial, but I thought it was interesting. Is it poetry or prose? Hmmmm...don't know, but I'll keep writing it:)

bob

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Josie (pina@direct.ca)@209.153.227.97 said:

My Dear Jan,your music once again rang happiness and understanding to my soul.What a beautiful post.A few days ago I had posted to my sister that I needed to read something inspirational,because I felt weak and was loosing perspective.Some call me physchic,a counceler spl?not quite awake any how.I started to doubt and feel such pain,unable to put words to what I felt or how it was that I percieved myself and what I did and how I viewed life.These wars and rumors of wars were getting to me.I started to wander as I guess some do,I started to loose sight of what was real and saw only what needed to be healed.While I would give people readings of what I saw I found that my heavy feeling was getting in the way of light and clarity.I thank you Jan for posting what you have.I will look at my self differently today and be confident in the gift that I recieved at birth.Today and tomorrow days following I will be reminded of what I read and the power in the beauty of all things.Thanks JAN your friend Josie

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Josie (pina@direct.ca)@209.153.227.97 said:

My Dear Jan,your music once again rang happiness and understanding to my soul.What a beautiful post.A few days ago I had posted to my sister that I needed to read something inspirational,because I felt weak and was loosing perspective.Some call me physchic,a counceler spl?not quite awake any how.I started to doubt and feel such pain,unable to put words to what I felt or how it was that I percieved myself and what I did and how I viewed life.These wars and rumors of wars were getting to me.I started to wander as I guess some do,I started to loose sight of what was real and saw only what needed to be healed.While I would give people readings of what I saw I found that my heavy feeling was getting in the way of light and clarity.I thank you Jan for posting what you have.I will look at my self differently today and be confident in the gift that I recieved at birth.Today and tomorrow days following I will be reminded of what I read and the power in the beauty of all things.Thanks JAN your friend Josie

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, John (JFr8049082@AOL.com)@208.152.96.38 said:

Can anyone tell me how to get involved in the Global Network for Success? I live in Oklahoma right now - Tulsa. Your help is appreciated Thanks.

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Carol (Ca@ALL)@152.163.201.6 said:

Good morning and thanks to everyone for your comments. it is cloudy here in Melbourne, Florida this morning. we are praying for rain, since the forest fires in Mexico has covered us with a smog, that just won't go away. the weather people say it will take a good rain. the smog is an eyeburning, chest aching thing and they have advised us to stay inside. therefore, i have been doing a lot of reading. something i don't need an excuse to do, but, it is nice when you have one. :) an excuse to just while the days away reading all the great stuff you have been collecting and waiting for a time less busy to get to. enjoy the day, my friends, and peace be with you in all your endeavours.

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Phoenix (@sunny day!!)@209.113.194.195 said:

Good morning..Carol..I can empathize with you regarding your mother. Mine also did alot of complaining throughout her life. It wasn't until she had full blown Alzheimers that I realized that she didn't have the know how to fix her life...she was stuck. In a way.with her disease, she was as happy as a clam....always smiling..I saw it as her true spirit coming out. She no longer had to make decisions she could jst 'be'...She was even smiling right before she died. God Bless her and yours.

Jan..that was one incredible piece that you passed along. I have made a copy so I can re-read it. It's very special.

Off for yet another excieting day in the world of anitques...Hadi..are antiques REALLY as expensive in England as they say? I'm really curious.....

Keep a smile on your face...I know I will today....x

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Denis (dcampbellj@earthlink.net)@38.11.240.104 said:

I think many of us have seen this one, but it's late, I'm wired and think it's very powerful.

A Story To Live By -- by Ann Wells (Los Angeles Times) My brother-in-law opened the bottom drawer of my sister's bureau and lifted out a tissue-wrapped package. "This," he said, "is not a slip. This is lingerie." He discarded the tissue and handed me the slip. It was exquisite; silk, handmade and hemmed with a cobweb of lace. The price tag with an astronomical figure on it was still attached. "Jan bought this the first time we went to New York, at least 8 or 9 years ago. She never wore it. She was saving it for a special occasion. Well, I guess this is the occasion." He took the slip from me and put it on the bed with the other clothes we were taking to the mortician. His hands lingered on the soft material for a moment, then he slammed the drawer shut and turned to me. Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Every day you're alive is a special occasion."

I remembered those words through the funeral and the days that followed when I helped him and my niece attend to all the sad chores that follow an unexpected death. I thought about them on the plane returning to California from the Midwestern town where my sister's family lives. I thought about all the things that she hadn't seen or heard or done. I thought about the things that she had done without realizing that they were special.

I'm still thinking about his words, and they've changed my life. I'm reading more and dusting less. I'm sitting on the deck and admiring the view without fussing about the weeds in the garden. I'm spending more time with my family and friends and less time in committee meetings. Whenever possible, life should be a pattern of experience to savor, not endure. I'm trying to recognize these moments now and cherish them.

I'm not "saving" anything; we use our good china and crystal for every special event-such as losing a pound, getting the sink unstopped, the first camellia blossom.

I wear my good blazer to the market if I feel like it. My theory is if I look prosperous, I can shell out $28.49 for one small bag of groceries without wincing. I'm not saving my good perfume for special parties; clerks in hardware stores and tellers in banks have noses that function as well as my party-going friends'.

"Someday" and "one of these days" are losing their grip on my vocabulary. If it's worth seeing or hearing or doing, I want to see and hear and do it now. I'm not sure what my sister would have done had she known that she wouldn't be here for the tomorrow we all take for granted. I think she would have called family members and a few close friends. She might have called a few former friends to apologize and mend fences for past squabbles. I like to think she would have gone out for a Chinese dinner, her favorite food. I'm guessing-I'll never know.

------------

It's those little things left undone that would make me angry if I knew that my hours were limited. Angry because I put off seeing good Friends whom I was going to get in touch with-someday. Angry because I hadn't written certain letters that I intended to write-one of these days. Angry and sorry that I didn't tell my husband and daughter often enough how much I truly love them. I'm trying very hard not to put off, hold back, or save anything that would add laughter and luster to our lives.

And every morning when I open my eyes, I tell myself that it is special.

Every day, every minute, every breath truly is...a gift from God.

Namaste

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Denis (dcampbellj@earthlink.net)@38.11.240.104 said:

Peggy, I was going to let your grammatical errors slide until you brought it up. Even with the best of editors, I challenge you to pick up any modern book of more than 250 pages and NOT find a single typo or other error. Unfortunately they do not make editors like they used to.

Carol, thanks for sharing about your mum. I long for moments like that when we now in the role of caregiver to elder parents can allow parents to look within themselves and see both us and themselves in a diifferent light.

Hadi, Hadi, Hadi, Hadi (rythmic clapping and cheering) Hadi, Hadi.... nice work mate.

Namaste.

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On Saturday, May 30, 1998, Silvia (S@W)@207.194.173.75 said:

There are so many good posts to read tonight! I'll start by saying hello to {{{everyone}}} and by the way Peggy those rumours... I think they're true! Carol,your post was touching to read. It reminded me a bit of the relationship between my son and I.I wonder if he feels that I complain alot...hehe I know he thinks I'm weird,but he assured me all old people are weird.I had a good laugh over that!

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@Jan)@152.163.206.89 said:

Hello Jan, i was so surprised to see that you knew Dana. this really is a small world. i find it fun that you and i started our friendship by knowing The Lightfamily and then we met in DC's live online chat and now to find out our path keeps crossing from the people we know. :) good post, thanks for bringing it here to the forum. Dana really is a Light Person. i receive something from him almost every day. he is truly living in the light.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Jan (terramere@aol.com)@152.163.232.25 said:

This is a long one...but the positive message in it spurred me to paste it here. I forward it to you with the hope that you might glean something of worth from it. I did. Wishing you all a wonderful weekend and much love.

A friend of mine, a photographer, traveled all over the world, shooting pictures of places that had been ravaged by war, crime and poverty. However, the pictures he took were beautiful, full of light, love and sweetness.
It was amazing to look at his work alongside that of other photographers who were shooting pictures of the same scenes. Their shots contained the grisly details of dead bodies, starved children or destroyed lives.
I asked him one time how he managed to see what he saw while travelling in those places. Could he not see the destruction, the loss of lives, the loss of dignity, the look of complete death in a child's eyes that no longer had parents or friends?
"How can I shoot those shots when so many others are shooting them already?" he replied softly. "Besides, my view of the world does not include those pictures. I choose to see the beauty in ALL things. I allow others to view the world in the negative, I choose to always see the positive. Here, look at this photo," he said, handing me a stack of pictures.
It was of a tiny, delicate and very beautiful flower surrounded by green grass. It was a close-up and showed the exquisite detail of the grains in the leaves while the morning dew glistened upon the petal of the soft flower. "Truly beautiful and amazing," I said. "That flower was right beside the dead body of a little boy in Serbia," he said, his eyes becoming soft and gentle. "He had been shot within sight of his parents who were killed immediately after he was. All for the crime of stealing bread to eat."
I paused while looking at the photo trying to imagine the scene as it was before he took this picture. The image of the dead boy filled my consciousness and I could not imagine NOT being able to take the whole picture.
"Are you not moved by death and starvation?" I asked. "Do you not think we owe it to the world to let them know of such conditions?" I demanded, getting up a full head of steam and ready to reprimand him for his lack of social conscience.
"I am as moved by the next one over wanton disregard of life. However, I choose to focus my attention upon the beauty that survives and LIVES in all things. It is not disregarding the ugly and the profane. But rather the celebration of the beauty of God's plan while man works upon destruction of man. For me to focus upon the negative would force me to become mired in the negative. As I choose to focus upon the positive and the beautiful, I affirm for myself over and over that what I see in the ugly does not exist but as a reflection of man. And that the TRUE beauty of the world lies within our ability to see more than that which is plastered upon the nightly news. The true essence of our beings is that which defines us as divine children of God. We are beautiful, we are strong and lovely and full of light. BUT, when we choose to see and look only at the negative in anything, then we make that negative "real" and it is not."
"But isn't your view kind of "Pollyanna-ish"? Doesn't it disregard the horrors that DO exist? Are you not sticking your head in the sand and refusing to see things as they REALLY are? Why not take the picture of the flowers AND the bodies?"
"Many people take pictures of the ugly aspects of humanity. I am not needed to do this for mankind. This is well done already. My job on earth is to provide a balance to that and a reminder of what is also there. To show that even among the most terrible places on earth, even after the most severe and awful desecration, God still finds a way for the flowers to thrive, to grow and to blossom. And I document THAT so that we have a living reminder of the true essence of our lives. I believe that we are MORE than what we see. That we are MORE than what we know and that we are MORE than what we show to others and ourselves. We are bigger, grander and more alive and more loving than we know. And without pictures like mine, without books and poetry, without music and art we would forever be stuck in a world without light. And then where do we go to find the models to show us how to break the patterns of our so-called 'reality', our existence? Light is LOVE and love is universal and we all could use more of that," he concluded.
I sat stunned into embarrassed silence for I realized that my social conscience had been on automatic pilot. My views had been focused upon the LOSS of things. And we create OUR world by CHOOSING how we view it. It is from this viewpoint that we make our mark and help heal the world and ourselves with it.
I stood and left. I walked around the lake and looked upwards seeing the stars light up the sky. It was a night I would never forget and I silently thanked God for the magnificence of Her plan. And that was when I saw it.
A cloud of cosmic dust filled the sky and for just a second, I saw an angel with the most beautiful eyes looking deeply into mine. Her face shone with the brilliance of white light and pure love and her voice was that of honey-coated smoothness. I wanted to bury my head in her breasts and find nuturance and comfort there, ending my confusion over the evening and within life itself. Instead I was given a shot of love, pure and divine love directly into my heart as she spoke.
"Beloved and dear one, let your heart be guided gently instead of pushed violently. You are not what you see in the mirror, sweet one. You are more beautiful and more majestic than you can imagine. Be as large as you really are and reclaim your heritage. You are needed here for there are many within the negative aspects of life and the world can use some more of love and hearts like yours. BE light and BE love and let your light shine out onto all others. In this way, you shall forever change the world. And maybe after this, there will be no need to take a photo that shows only the beautiful flower and crops out the ugly bodies of death. Transform and change how you view yourself and you transform and change how you see the world. In this, you truly do change the world into a more loving and giving place, because you give it permission to be more than it thinks it is. And this gives it the room to grow fully and blossom totally. Be kind and be love," the angel said, her image fading and the sky becoming nighttime again. ===================================================== Be more than what you see as real, beloved ones. Change the lens that you use to view the world and see it as it TRULY is and then see how this changes YOU. For what we look at and focus upon is what we see in ourselves and then create to be as our "reality".. And if we are choosing to see ONLY the negative, then we see an unbalanced and unrealistic picture of US.
In the Christed White Light that awakens within me and gives me permission to be free of the limiting aspects of self, I AM, Dana dhwilson2@aol.com

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, bob (VSpen67816@aol.com)@152.163.205.104 said:

Thanks, Hadi, Peggy and Carol.

bob

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Peggy (hill@home)@207.223.182.15 said:

I have heard a rumor about men with big noses...

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Peggy (hill@home)@207.223.182.15 said:

Carol, glad that you liked my little joke. When I first met my husband on a computer bulletin board, he was always checking things in the "dick." It got my attention! So the use was intentional just so that maybe I could coax a little smile from someone.

What made me laugh, however, was when I reread my post to Denis and saw that I had included a comma and a capital letter that didn't need to be there. It was especially ironic because I was referring to Deepak's affluence with English.

I'm glad that you shared the interchange with your mother. In my conversation with my mother last week, she told me that she had used the belt on me too long. (I think any use is too long, but knew when I was hearing a good thing and let it pass.) I told her that that was a very healing thing to say.

That's when she told me that I once said to her that I was tired of her "bitching." That was almost twenty-five years ago. I don't remember saying it and I wouldn't say it now. But something in me was glad that I had at least stood up to her one time back then. Now when I am firm with her, I don't have to resort to such methods to get my point across.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (Bed@time)@194.112.52.67 said:

Yawwwwwn.

Namaste'.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.52.67 said:

I finally replaced my mouse which I had been wrestling with daily for about a month. I got a new Microsoft WheelMouse. It's just fantastic! A Rolls Royce compared to my previous one and the "wheel" function is just excellent for auto-scroll. I do recommend.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (Who@nose)@194.112.52.67 said:

No. Haven't tried that.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (NEVNO96@aol.com)@152.163.213.113 said:

i visited my mother at the care center today. she was doing fairly well and i took her out to sit on the porch. mostly when i visit her she spends the time giving me her list of complaints. so today, as usual, she was reeling them out. as she was talking, i sort of had a memory of deja vu. like that this is what we have been doing all of my life. that is, me listening to her complaining. i had this thought that i have never seen the time that she was ever satisfied with anything. she must of noticed that my attention was somewhere else, because she asked me what i was thinking about? i told her the truth, that it seemed to me that she has never been satisfied about anything. she looked at me and said don't criticise me, Carol, i won't be around that much longer. i looked at her and felt much love towards her. i said, mom, yes, that is why i am telling you this. i had hoped that you might see it before you leave. she was real quiet, for a moment, and smiled and looked at me and said, ok, i see what you mean. well, for me, it was a *onederful* moment. it seemed to make all the other times i spent with her more worth while. because i was there for that moment. i hope you don't mind me sharing this personal moment with my mother with you.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@Hadi)@152.163.213.113 said:

haha! i thought ya meant (very Big nod) !! why, are ya puttin' your nose in somewhere it doesn't belong??

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.52.67 said:

Just call me "big nose".

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@All)@152.163.213.113 said:

i hope everyone does something for the Earth this weekend. as Earthlings, we need to be kind to our Home.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.52.67 said:

VBN

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@Hadi)@152.163.213.113 said:

just call me "Smiley" hehe!

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@Hadi)@152.163.213.113 said:

(very BIG smile)

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@ALL)@152.163.213.113 said:

actually, i just love! :)

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@home)@194.112.52.67 said:

Hi Carol: VBS?

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.52.67 said:

None of us are completely original
Each of us is quite unique

Better.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@Hadi)@152.163.213.113 said:

Hi Hadi, and i love your uniqueness!! (VBS)

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@Pegs)@152.163.213.113 said:

Hi Peggy, i was paying attention too. ;) and got a good laugh out of it. sometimes those typodemons are just what we need to shake it up a bit! LOL

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.52.67 said:

None of us are completely original
Each of us are quite unique

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Peggy (hill@home)@207.223.182.15 said:

Kitty, as for Mr. Webster, I was just seeing if you were paying attention... Peace...light....merriment...

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (NEVNO96@aol.com)@152.163.213.113 said:

Hello Leonard - i loved reading the Wizard also. and that's it! yes! that's it and this is IT!!

have a onederful and joyful weekend everyone. :)

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Peggy (hill@home)@207.223.182.15 said:

Denis, Mark indicated in his post that he checked the printed version which said "legion." Although the words have the same or similar origin, they are not the same in meaning. Deepak seems quite fluent in his use of English, And certainly his editor is.

But if Mark is looking for an excuse not to read Chopra, then he is probably not ready. And that is perhaps the more important issue.

Silvia, that reminds me! Maybe whoever stole those tapes is "a student who is ready." Boy! Is she or he in for a surprise!

Hadi, I like the ideas presented in what Bob refers to as poetry. But they are still in the form of prose (which he writes quite well).

Why do I feel a Dr. Raspberry attack coming on? ;)

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Peggy (hill@home)@207.223.182.15 said:

For those of you interested in more channelling on reality boundaries and "energy gestalts," you will find it at

http://www: worldlightcenter.com/seth/cprwsjddm.htm

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.52.67 said:

Here is the mirror of our deeds,
Made clear.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Leonard (slojim@ptd.net)@204.186.20.56 said:

Here's what I say, read the books then practice what you have learned. Just do it. There comes a time when you have to graduate. There comes a time when all the illusions disappear and there is nothing in your way. That's it.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Hadi (zarbafi@dircon.co.uk)@194.112.52.67 said:

Bob: Encore...

...when the darkest moment comes,
relax in it. Let what is there reveal itself
to you. For what seems a nightmare is
often life bringing something new,
something needed.

What often appears as frightening in
the beginning, reveals itself later on as
love breaking through the stubborn
walls of our most profound beliefs.

Superb.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, bob (VSpen67816@aol.com)@152.163.197.241 said:

Hi, Ginette. Such a pretty name. I don't think I've heard it before. Yep. The stuff just comes through at times. A lot of it is lost because it comes so quickly and there's so much of it. It's odd. I don't really understand it. Life is the ultimate giver.

bob

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Leonard (slojim@ptd.net)@204.186.20.56 said:

My life is forever changed because of The Wizard.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Carol (Ca@Kitty)@152.163.213.113 said:

Hi Kitty thanks for the messages you are sharing with us, i want to hear all about the class you are attending. :)

bob great stuff! as usual! keep on keepin' on :)

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, gINETTE (G.DSILVA@NFB.CA)@199.84.164.179 said:

Bob - Are the poems you post here writen by you? They are excellent :) I'm looking forward to reading more! Thanks for sharing these poem with us.

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Ak (quantum@konnections.com)@207.173.185.207 said:

Namaste, Kitty I am in a rush and it doesn't pay. The message below is to you. Thank you!

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On Friday, May 29, 1998, Ak (quantum@konnections.com)@207.173.185.207 said:

Namaste, Thank you for making the effort. You can email it to me if you get it. It is really a very uplifting song. Thanks again. It is a great workshop. Are you guys eating in silence? That was great too. Love an Enjoy!!

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