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You're most welcome, Debi. Actually my sister's name is Debbie! I have now cleaned up the spelling mistake on that animation. I borrowed it from someone else and assumed they could spell. :)

D2--For me, the grooving in the moment thing that Peggy mentioned is akin to John Grey meditating while driving or thre gist of the book Tom shared about walking meditation--certainly when one stops throughout the day to become aware of the wonders of the moment this is a mini meditation--and hopefully one that becomes ever more frequent as the days pass :-) I do do at least this much--it's the sitting queitly for very long w/o interuption type meditation that is harder to fit in to my days...

I don't see myself as being too serious in earnestly seeking God --you know all that about loving God with all your heart and sould and body business :-) I admit that at times, my quest seems urgent and frustrating and serious, but for the most part ---and thanks to you guys in part for sharing your joy etc...---it is not. I realize that I am where I should be and go about my musings and wonderings peacefully...and enjoy the many blessings around me.

Namaste! Cathy

Many moons ago we joked about the 10 minute meditation technique for all those busy, busy folks on the go...

I saw Tom's post just after seeing an interview with John Grey (Venus and Mars) on Dutch TV. He was talking about how he did not have time to meditate (I swear those were his words) and now does so behind the wheel of his car (kids don't try this at home). ROTFL

The truly funny part of it all was he was a huge TM teacher and follower for eons and for many years the right hand aide to Mahareeshi himself.

Sooooo if he cannot find time to meditate, don't feel bad gang. I love when the universe brings absolute joy and humor into these situations Cathy... We have got to lighten up and stop taking everything so gosh darned seriously all of the time.

In catching up here today, I noticed the recouuring question of finding the time to meditate. I just remembered a book I picked up at the Chopra Center several years ago, The Long Road Turns to Joy : A Guide to Walking Meditation, by Thich Nhat Hanh. I enjoyed the book and others may find it useful. Click on the picture below to read more about it at Amazon.com.

aaaahhh! Cathy, yes, i agree, one needs to use logic and i am not trying to put down logic as a tool. what i am trying to say is that logic is a poor tool when evaluating One such as Jesus, imho. i prefer using my heart instead of my head when i look at His Story. i am not advocating this for anyone else and what i should have said is that i do not use logic instead of One should not. i am truly just speaking for myself.

also in my post i said each of us must decide when it is the correct advice, i should of said that each us knows when it is the correct advice. i appreciate your posts and i enjoy reviewing my comments so that if necessary i can clarify what i am trying to say. i usually just type and it seems my english could be improved because i can always finds something that could be better said. since i am not trying to impress anyone, just trying to share, i like it when a comment brings it to my attention.

Peggy --- It’s really hard to point things writing it out in limited space. I don’t think that folks in the mid east are more abrupt and accusatory necessarily. However, there is a “mentality” and trust me on this. The way Hadi reasons and accuses is very offensive. He tries to turn any comment, opinion and experience and outrightly say it is a lie when it is not necessarily a lie. This is fairly typical and a form of defence for a society so full of lies and myths living in the shadow of west. I recently spoke to a man from Sudan, a northerner, an Arab, a taxi driver in Toronto. Out of interest I asked where he was from. He asked me to guess. At first I said Somalia. Then in Arabic I asked if he was from Sudan. He looked at me in shock. He said in all the time people had asked him where he was from no one guessed Sudan. The fact I’m non-Arab who asked him and spoke to him in Arabic shocked him to no end. What he found funny was the fact I spoke with a street slang of Cairo though my Arabic is far from fluent. I told him I had spent time with the SPLA (Sudan Peoples Liberation Army) of south Sudan and covered they’re big push in March/April 97, Operation Thunderbolt. The SPLA is the rebel army fighting the Islamic regime of Khartoum. He immediately wanted to know the truth about the war since he at least had the good sense to not believe the regime in Khartoum and began asking me all sorts of questions. It was as interesting for me because he is a Muslim from the north who seemed keen on seeing the war end. One of the questions he brought up was if there really was slavery in the south, if there was a slave trade. You see Peggy, there is a slave trade in the south of black, non-Arab, Non-Muslim Africans by military officers and Arab tribesmen. The UN is buying back slaves to reunite with their families all the time. There is a couple out of London, Ontario that go to South Sudan and risk their lives to also buy back slaves to free them almost every year. It’s no secret. However, the Sudanese taxi driver put it to me in simple terms and argued, “There is no slave trade. It’s a lie. I’ve never seen slaves being sold in Khartoum. It doesn’t exist.” I tried to argue otherwise but it was an uphill struggle as he claimed it as a western conspiracy. I could see his logic but then again he’s never been to the south where it happens. The driver’s reactions were more out of emotions. He was embarrassed and offended that this outdated behaviour is happening in his own country and went so far as to claim conspiracies and lies. It was his defence when all the evidence suggests otherwise. …This is the sort of reactionary dribble I get from Hadi. Emotional, offensive, accusatory and simply dismissive. There is much about me that Hadi doesn’t know either. And yet he insists I get my info from where he says I do- Dismissive; that western media lies and is out to get those mid east chaps and it’s all run by Jews - Accusatory. My Hadi case study earlier may be on the bingo ball or it may not. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just an educated guess. I’ve often said I generalize. However, I know I am generalizing. I’m aware of it. And because I’m aware of it I don’t hold it against anyone. However, when the mould comes out it doesn’t surprise me i.e.The French in France are known to be rude and guess what? They often are especially in Paris. Peggy, let me ask you this, if you were to meet a Yanimame Indian in South America, and told him that women are equal to men, that abortion is okay and that you bury the dead instead of cremating them and ingesting them as a soup he would look at you in horror and maybe think you deserve to die yourself- A mentality. Tell the average muslim Iranian man in rural country that woman are equal to men, that woman should not have to veil, that a woman can go about without her husband’s permission and he’d think you’re a western fool with evil ideas- It’s A mentality and reasoning all its own. …Mind you there are always exceptions and I know I generalise.

Hi Carol--What you're saying about Jesus is different than what Hadi has said, as I understand it. You are saying his actions were all divinely inspired, including his anger and frustration at those who "mocked" him. Hadi says that these moments are just moments of humanity. As with most things in my life, I think these questions of mine matter and don't ;-) They don't matter in that regardless of the truth about jesus, I still have my own choices to make, and wisdom to discover. But they do matter because he was one of the two most renowned "guides" sent here or however you look at it, to show us the way...so understanding his message in a coherent way is important (vs just taking what we want from it and ignoring what we don't like). You said "One that is still working from within ego's framework should not try to use logic to discern Him or His motives." I respectfully disagree because I think that his message was largely about showing the "average" person who is still operating within ego's framework what is beyond that horizon. I know that there are limits to logic, but it is also a very useful tool in understanding our world/lives and in not falling prey to dogma and distortions of religious/spiritual ideas--I'm thinking here of "lower" levels of spirituality and their thought that their's is the only path to God.

D2--Thanks for sharing your understandings. I suppose I disagree that there are no absolutes...for even the notion that there are no absolutes is an absolute ;-) (That's Ken Wilber logic :-))I will say that I agree that there are not a whole list of absolutes :) And that the absolute may be something as inconstant as the only constant is change ;-) But, like Deepak's spiritual Laws, I feel there is order and intelligence in the universe that applies to our own consciouness/spiritual lives as well as the external world which, once understood, guide us more "smoothly" than if otherwise ignored...make any sense? My wonderings about those who came before us are an effort to utilize the gift they brought by understanding their message. Again, paradox: all I need is within, but there is much to learn from without :-)

Peace! Cathy

Carol .. albeit I've not talked with you .. thanks for your kind expressions of spiritual friendship and love for the loss Denis and I are experiencing. yes, i do thank God and the universe that I had ANY time with Cheryll .. she was something else! Her spirit lives on and on. Her love transcends the spear of death. Celebrate in bliss and light her love and laughter which will be forever in our hearts. Namaste

Thanks, Geoff.. that is beautiful and Cheryll would have loved it. Denis, her friendship and love for us will always be there. Her spirit is with us both .. always. Love you! Namaste

Right on! I so agree with what you said, "We so need the rules to remain constant and never change when we are ever changing and being. The incongruencies in our own value system (which we insist never changes) cause the tension in ourselves to project onto others."

dear Debi & Denis, i am truly sorry for the loss of your good friend, Cheryll. i hope you can find comfort in having known her for this short time.
Namasté, dearOnes.

hi Cathy, Jesus had a calling to speak, under those circumstances it was appropiate, imo. this Onederful advice, not to speak unless asked, is not always true for everyOne, each of us must decide, individually, when it is the correct advise.
as far as Jesus' anger, it was also appropiate and He was non-attached, Cathy. He was without ego, His motives were correct and He was divine-ly directed. One that is still working from within ego's framework should not try to use logic to discern Him or His motives.

Eyore, the nasty, i'm not surprised with your post to Hadi. it was right in character with your former posts!!

. . . for the lovely tribute to Cheryll.

I was reflecting how this wonderful being touched so many people while hiding her own pain. She had an emormous amount of light and love and I felt more of a sisterhood bond with her. My regret is that many more will not get to know her on this spiritual plain.

Unless we can suspend our own limiting thoughts (they really are, you know) we can never see that simple really is simple and easy... Like everything else it is a choice.

As for the teachers, it is their truth they speak and at times we need their truth to help point us in the direction that our own truth needs to fully develop.

Many months ago I was in a rather heated discussion with a young gentleman here about 'truth'. He became responded very emotionally when I suggested that there is no absolute truth in the universe (similar to an exchange a few weeks ago over the Palestinian conflict and terrorists, come to think of it, it might even have been the same person only wearing a different mask). There is only that which is true for each of us on our path at the time.

We so need the rules to remain constant and never change when we are ever changing and being. The incongruencies in our own value system (which we insist never changes) cause the tension in ourselves to project onto others.

For me, that is THE truth.

Geoff- thanks for the information re Namaste : )

"Do not seek perfection in a changing world
Instead, perfect your love."

Jack Kornfield.

Gee, I've never had my name above the "credits" before!

Chris, I hear what you are saying. I guess I have been using "truth" and "Truth" interchangeably.

Cathy, I'm sure that you've heard that when the student is ready, the teacher will arrive. Maybe the teacher will arrive when you take more time for yourself. (Easy for me to say, I know. I didn't have children.) But can you try meditating instead of reading or posting? (But please don't go away!)

Eyore, you said: "Is Hadi more western than I think? From what I've been reading and his abuptness with all knowing accusations I might think otherwise but I could be wrong."

You've illustrated my point. Do you really think that people in the East are more abrupt and accusatory than Westerners?

I see you making some of the same mistakes that Hadi does: generalize, assume, label, react, attack. There is much about Hadi that you do not know.

Everything I've written above is just my opinion -- except for the last sentence.

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Peggy--No I don't journal, and I only meditate sporadically--I'm working on that :-) With a husband that works a lot and three kids who are here with me 24/7, it's hard. I know it can be done though if the desire is there--and it's getter stronger...

The advice about grooving in the moment is one I appreciate :-) I am a bit of a dreamer sometimes, full of ideas of things to do to improve the world I live in, myself etc...it is something I think about often--the wisdom in enjoying the moment while still working toward goals or intentions...thanks for the reminder :-)

I understand your comment about feeling comfort that even Jesus "lost it" from time to time :-) I still wonder about it though...

Love, Cathy

I did not know Cherryll, but my warm wishes for peace in this difficult time go out to all who did know and love her...

"Do we grow more from finding our own answers to questions than we do from someone else teaching us their answers? How do we know that the other person's answers are the truth?"

Great question Peggy! My perspective on this question is that "truth" is a very different animal than "Truth". I believe that everyone has an internal "truth" detector. When something makes sense to us it is true for us. The "making sense" sense gives us a feeling of contentment when an idea of concept is true for us. When it is not true for us it gives us a feeling of discord or discomfort. The concept that the Earth is flat gives me a great sense of discomfort while the idea that the Earth goes around the Sun gives me a sense of contentment. It satisfies my "making sense" sense. In the case of math and logic that "making sense" is pretty concrete and universal. However for things more personal and philosophical quite often peoples "making sense" sense disagree with each other. This can lead to a lot of conflict because we tend to mistake "truth" (as in opinion) for "Truth" (as in what is really, really true). One litmus test for "Truth" is whether there is conflict or not. If there is conflict you are only dealing with "truth" because you are operating from a place of opinion, mental constructs and language. If we are dealing with "Truth" there can't be conflict, only Love (in my opinion at least). So given this, a person can find "truth" in almost anything. A Deepak Chopra Forum post, a book, a poem, another person, etc. etc…

Finding "Truth" however is a different story. In my opinion this can't be captured in language, so as long as there are words on the screen, words on paper or somebody is talking "Truth" isn't being conveyed. However, words can point to "Truth" even though they can't capture it. I believe that "masters" can point us to "Truth" by helping us get past our limiting beliefs and perceptions, but "Truth" must be experienced first hand by each of us and once experienced it can't be shared with words. It is kind of a bummer actually. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to have each of us actually experience something like your balcony experience just by telling us about it? It just doesn't seem to work that way unfortunately. It is a great mystery why we sometimes get great glimpses into "Truth" for no apparent reason. There are techniques that seem to help many people get glimpses in a more systematic way like meditation.

Thanks for the great question!

Peggy--- Is Hadi more western than I think? From what I've been reading and his abuptness with all knowing accusations I might think otherwise but I could be wrong. I can see he is something of a westerner adopting new age religious beliefs (and the like but his formative years were spent in Iran and he did go back for long periods of time. There may be some conflict. I mean he seems to be so sure of everything including what I know and don't know (and what the western press knows as a whole)where I get my info from etc. that the Jews run the world- a common Arab/Islamic belief. TO TAKE HADI APPROACH AND USE HIS PRESUMPTUOUS TECHNIQUE AND METHOD- I can now assume that Hadi is a person going through some inner conflict of who he is. He was raised in the mid-east in a society and Islamic culture of restriction, an environment of lies and myths both political and social, a society with no real critical analytical education. He moved to Britain and was exposed to a new way of thinking, culture, society, language, etc. While in the UK he sees himself as a foreigner and stranger and the Brits may all too well point this out to him. He wants to fit in. As he grows up in the west he adopts western customs and education and even jumps on the new age spiritual band wagon when he's older. However, he still finds biographical accounts of the slightest offence of his fellow nationals and regional brothers to be a lie. I'm referring to Not Without My Daughter. Hadi, even the woman's husband admits she escaped Iran (but he claims she didn't have to do that). Any and all such accounts are to be dismissed outright. He also believes in Jewish conspiracies and a Protocal of Zion and may actually well hate Jews in a stereotyped way- A reflection of an inner hate of the west and it's imperial past (through Israel) in the region. If there is one ounce of truth that shines a bad light on his region and people Hadi will be the first to defend it as a lie as he has in past posts. My own experiences and my opinion based on those years of experience are far too easily dismissed by him with childish rhetoric like I get my info from "ficitious books"- At least it's not the "Protocal of Zion" and "The Media Is Out To Get Us Mid east Folk" which I guess are Hadi sure fire truths. But hey, I could be wrong...

I just wanted to add one of my favorite Krishnamurti quotes that seems to fit with the present discussion.

"To know yourself you need not go to any book, to any priest, to any psychologist. The whole treasure is within yourself."

Happy New Year everyone. May the days ahead bring you love, peace, and contentment.

TO, the good kids (the majority) don't make for interesting viewing on Dateline. You know that I love you very much and I admire you for your interest and involvement with today's youth. But I can introduce you to a nine year old boy who wouldn't see The Gladiators because it is too violent. I know a ten year old who uses her birthday money to buy presents for others. I know a thirteen year old who has a great disdain for artificiality and pretense.

Don't forget that I have been in the trenches. I've taught more murderers than I can count on one hand. I could have focused just on them or on the drug dealers and addicts and thugs. They certainly need our attention! But get out for a fresh perspective from time to time! Most kids are good at heart and want to make the world a better place. They deserve your attention too, don't they?

Cathy, do you journal? Do you meditate? Most importantly, I think, do you spend time focusing on the moment as opposed to what you want to be at some future time?

For me, so much of my contentment has grown from grooving on the moment.

Cathy, it is somehow comforting to me that the human part of Jesus continued to blow it from time to time. I wonder how receptive I would have been if he had shown up at the forum...It would probably depend on how much love he showed for me. And if he cared about what I had to say.

Eyore, I suspect that Hadi's views are more Western than you think. Most of his life has been spent in the West.

Maybe when we live in a certain country, we absorb enough of the mind-set of that country to have our objectivity clouded. But I suspect that most of the time there are things to be known only by living in a culture as an insider for many, many years.

You have painted a stereotype of Hadi and are reacting to it as if it were true. He sometimes does the same thing with Americans. That is such an annoying habit for both of you.

As most of you saw from Denis' e-mail post .. our mutual friend and beloved spiritual mentor, Cheryll Graves was tragically killed in a car accident on the 28th of December. Prayers for her husband Ken and her mother and other family members. We've all lost an angel, but she will be with us spiritually forever. She participated in many of Deepak's meetings last of which was India. I know many of you had the pleasure of knowing Cheryll. Namaste .. treasure every moment and tell those you love, you love them. There are no promises for a tomorrow. Peace be with you all and Happy New Year.

Carol--I tend to agree with your comment about not telling people about stuff unless they ask you--why do you think Jesus "preached" his message vs just telling those who asked? I mentioned this to Hadi once as well...in the post in which I discussed Jesus and his occassional anger at people who laughed or mocked what he had to say...this seems different than or opposed to the idea of nonattachment--though I don't doubt that he was not motivated by his ego to be attached to the response he got as much as he was by his love of mankind...any thoughts?

Blessings! Cathy

Hadi the Hasty--- I'm not surprised by your as usual hasty delusional, paranoid, conclusions. That's right Hadi, Hollywood and and media are out to get you and every middle easterner who's not a Jew. Do you know how pathetic you sound to me? Any knowledge I have from the Mid East comes from having lived and studied in the region for years- living it, tasting it, learning the languages, etc... What can you say about that other than you are ethnically from there and seem to have the mentality of one from there as well. Those books and films I pointed out are not conspiral I assure you. They are true stories and items unlike the fantasy world in which you live in of quasi-spiritualism touched by a bit of anti-Jewishness. Keep talking the way you do. It really does nothing for you.

Peggy and Kate--Thanks for your posts--Peggy, I like the part about there being truth within each of us...and looking for that in others...much like seeing the divine spark in people, I think. And I certainly concur with your thought about a belligerent Prince of Peace ;-) My questions about Masters is not so much to have a specific idea about what a Master is...it's about trying to understand the message they brought and how that was applied to their daily life--I guess that's what it means to me when someone is called a master--not that they simply have knowledge of things most of us don't, but that that wisdom is applied in their daily living--that's what makes them masters vs just people with exposure to wisdom...thanks for helping me clarify that in my own mind. I also believe that there is an absolute "IT" to become aware of---while there may be many paths to that awareness, and all of our lives are perfect in that each moment is a part of our own path, there is still IT behind it all, and IT is universal and absolute, IMO. My questions these days are more about trying to understand IT vs figuring the "best" path to get there in general (though as I've said, I am looking for my path).

D2-simple is definitely not equivalent with easy :-) Thanks for the input...

TO--No offense, but your version of IT sounds a mite boring ;-)Obviously, I'm not there yet, eh? Or it wouldn't seem that way... I have heard that quote before and know what you mean however. Thanks!

Carol, ya never know--we may just head your way one of these days...my kids love Seaworld...

"It is only when the mind is free from idea that there can be experiencing. Ideas are not truth; and truth is something that must be experienced directly, from moment to moment. It is not an experience which you "want" - which is then merely sensation. Only when one can go beyond the bundle of ideas - which is the "me", which is the mind, which has a partial or complete continuity - only when one can go beyond that, when thought is completely silent, is there a state of experiencing. Then one shall know what truth is."

~ J.Krishnamurti

Geoff thanks for info on Namaste', and the link to Namaste' Cafe.

Carol.........."if asked".......you bet. Right on!

I sure wouldn't want to be in the position therapists are today.....responsible for helping these kids.

Program note!

I happened to catch a preview of what will be on Dateline NBC tonight.......9:00 pm Central Time.

It's about what teenagers are doing today, and one kid says....."If parents only knew what is going on today......." and then they cut in and said something like "join us tomorrow night" for the story.

I doubt if what I'm hearing will be broadcast, as it's just to damn far fetched to "normal" thinking, but the info should be informative as to "surface" stuff.

"Truth in fiction"............. you bet Pegasus.

BTW, welcome back to both of you. I don't remember giving you permission for a trip! (L)

Stop doing start being, simple is always hardest.

Namaste'

"When hungry----eat; When tired----sleep"

That's.........."IT"

no sun here, today, Kate. brrr, i'm not used to this, heh!! :(

one of the wisest messages i received from a Master, Peggy, was not to look for wisdom within him but to look for it within myself and to share it, only, if asked.

Cathy, you are very good at explaining things and your questions are thought-provoking.

Do we grow more from finding our own answers to questions than we do from someone else teaching us their answers? How do we know that the other person's answers are the truth?

If we stop searching for answers in books should we also stop searching for answers here?

Can a reader find truth in fiction also? Isn't that why Jesus taught in parables?

I agree that we sometimes have idealized visions of what a master is. At the same time, why should I consider someone a "Prince of Peace" if she or he is seemingly belligerent?

If we are all One (and I believe that we are), then why not learn from each other and see the truth that is within each of us -- rather than just imparting the truth as we know it?

Practice namaste in thought and deed.

For calendars, you might try this: http://calendarconnection.com/2001/ (Is Randomhouse paying these folks to ask? That's meant to be a joke.)

Hey, Carol, we have SUN today up here! Of course, it's only about 20 degrees and there's still a lot of snow. Right now I'm not betting on seeing grass 'til about April. :-)

you're right, Chris, i was allowing the difference, heh! good questions, too.

Sun??? where? huh, Kate? ;)

1.2.01 I am trying to find some 2001 page.a.day calendars by Deepak Chopra. Does anyone know where I can order them? I need to have a phone # or a site that will allow me to pay by check or money order as I do not use credit cards. Thank you. Mickey

Glad you have your new space! Actually, I like Cathy's reply to Hadi very much. It explains again what she was musing on initially. So I just brought up Ravi's famous lines in my head: Beware the Tyranny of Words! A good giggle to start the return to work and the Big New One! (Maybe Dick is still lounging in the sun somewhere.)

If Carol lives in Florida, shouldn't she be Carol of DisneyWORLD? DisneyLAND is in California. Also, if Jesus was born in Bethlehem, shouldn't he be Jesus of Bethlehem? And if the Holy Ghost impregnated Mary and she was a Virgin, why does the Bible claim that Joseph was Jesus father when tracing his linage back to David? Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

Thanks for the reply.

the hoopla is over and here we are in the New ME! in One piece! hope to see lots of posts here. hey, Kate, i thought for sure Hadi's last post would bring Dick out, heh!

D2, i will take that 3pm pause. love to you, dearOne!

you come visit anyway, Cathy! i'd love to meet you and your family and i have a nice "new" space you could stay in, heh! :)

... and here is the Namaste Cafe

Found it - Namaste poem

And here's another link to the definition/pronunciation/derivation - click

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