To encourage the exchange of thoughts about Deepak Chopra and his work, we will post your comments, inquiries, and opinions. Please feel free to respond to someone else's comments or questions, or simply post your own. Post a Message | Read the Forum | Sign the Guestbook Please Post Your Comments Name: Email Address: Comments:

Anne

Are you sure you and Geoff aren't kin? :-) You both have the gift of a sense of humor!! Your kids (unless, of course, you are kin--in which case I wouldn't recommend having kids with each other ;-)) will be comic geniuses ;-) Thanks for the smiles...

Cathy

That interview also mentions 'spiritual egoism' which is a term I hadn't encountered b4. More food for thought. Bye now, must get back to pinning things on my wall ... :)

Anyone know how to post a link? Funny thing, after reading geoff's excerpt I looked up 'satish kumar' and found an interesting interview with him.

http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC17/Kumar.htm

The other funny thing is it mentions Gandhi (spelling?) ...

Geoff, don't leave us. We will be so lost and diminished without your presence! (presents?) I will miss your warmth, your wit and your wisdom. You say not to make 'comparisons' but your 'last post' was far and away the most _________ I have ever read.

And I should know - I am devoting my life to reading this entire forum over & over again. If message # 53, 840 is indeed your last (serious) visit then I intend to print it out and frame it and pin it on my bedroom wall right next to my autographed poster of Buddha on tour. I will read it with silence and reverence 47 times a day until I have fully absorbed and considered its vast implications. I intend to do this until I have attained full enlightenment which ought to take about six months or so. I would urge all Forum regulars (and even the irregulars) to do likewise.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say I want to have your children. You can read me a bedtime story anyday. I particularly like the one where Snow White and Goldilocks climb the magic beanstalk and discover the true nature of human consciousness and they all live happily ever after in a little town just outside of Moscow.

I propose that for the next six months we simply re-post the best of geoff's contirbutions until we fully understand them. He is surely our most sublime spiritual teacher since Sgt Schultz uttered those immortal words on Hogan's heroes:
"I know nothing."

I would urge anyone who reads this to go out into the world and preach the word of Geoff to all who have ears to listen. Go out into the forests and the deserts and scream these words into the great beyond. Then you can all pop over to my place for a bedtime story.

Thanks again.

Bon Voyage.

I love the Ghandi quote! though I can't recall seeing it anywhere else ... :)

hi Jeff! great to see you here. :) looking forward to hearing about your trip. Namasté, dear friend.

Swimming into a wave, if our timing is right, we feel it lift and propel us forward. It is exhilerating. Did you scream out to your friends the first time? I did. It was amazing. The roar of it was too much for anyone to hear my voice, but in the midst of that swirling foamy madness, I just wanted to share it. That is an addiction maker. Wow. I have had the most profound admiration for surfers after that. When I see them in traffic with their boards on the roof I wave or nod. Sometimes I will time my walk along the surf so that I can exchange a few words as they emerge. I love to watch the different syles. Some fight the wave's curl and slash about. Other's glide and dance on the water. I love to watch them, but most of all, I love to get right out there and feel that power around me. Waves are cool.

¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º

Jeff - You are manifesting things very well - enjoy India and give us a report when you get back. Is Roxy going with you?

Sandy and I were considering going to HTKG and Jenny was even going to have us help her set up for a few days on the front end in exchange for some free room and board. However, we are just getting settled in Taos, I have been through the material with Deepak at the last two ASOSs and I estimated it would be 10k for the week and a half so we decided to pass this time around.

When you get back, please bring Roxy down and stay for a few days.

Namaste', Bob

Ooops! Obviously, something is not right. My machine isn't updating posts. *sigh*

Don't tell me the forum is "closed" again?

Namaste'

Nice to "see" you Jeff, and thanks for the report/info.

Have you got a big trunk you can put me in so I can join you on your trip?

Only I'd probably stay. In fact my landlord is from India, as well as a couple I converse with, and they outlined some places to visit, but none of the places coincide with the popular places except Vrindaban(sp?).

Have a beautiful trip.

Namaste'

And just to explain why I may not get back here for a while again, I will be making my first trip to India on Oct. 29 and will be gone about 3 weeks. I'll be attending Deepak's HTKG seminar and the PSM instructor's retreat. I'll try to check in here more frequently, and look forward to sharing my trip with you all when I return! Namaste, Jeff

I've also heard Deepak suggest that we silently repeat "Namaste" as we're looking at someone, even while they're talking to us. I must say it is very powerful! When I do that, I immediately "know" that me and the other person are truly "One." Namaste, Jeff

Hi Curious! And Hi my other Forum Friends! Well I'm glad that the first thing I'm able to do when I come back is to help another seeker along their path! (Forgive me however, as I've been away so long that I've obviously forgotten all the HTML formatting tricks, e.g., paragraphs.) Here it is anyway: NAMASTE' (NAW-MAW-STAY) NAMASTE' definition Short version: I honor the God within you! Long version: I honor that "place" within you, that When you are in that "place" within you, and I am in that "place" within me, There is only ONE OF US! BTW, it was dear TerryO that coaxed me back to say Hi! Namaste, Jeff

Namaste

Why do people in this forum usually end at the word "Namaste" ? What does it mean? Is this forum devoted to promote thinking of a particular religion? What religion does Dr. Chopra follows? Thanks

"The moment we begin to fear the opinions of others and hesitate to tell the truth that is in us, and from motives of policy are silent when we should speak, the divine floods of light and life no longer flow into our souls."
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton, 1890

Desearía que me informen si hay en Argentina,en Cordoba en especial. Medicos que sigan la línea Ayurvedica del Dr. Chopra para poder recibir mas informacion y atencion medica. Desde ya muchas gracias

I'm really interested in new-age support groups and the human mind. I have enjoyed several of deepaks books. If anyone would like to discuss anything from dreams, alternative healing, visions, channeling or other forms of spirituality please feel free to contact me. Im highly educated on these subjects and would enjoy talking with you. my address is 261 51st street grandjunction mi 49056 Sincerely Rita Guerrero

Caros amigos !!! Assisti o vídeo e li o livro "As Sete Leis Espirituais do Sucesso", estou praticando uma por dia e divulgando as mesmas com amigos. Gostaria de participar da Rede Global para o Sucesso Espiritual, ser informada do desenvolvimento da Rede e receber material. Muito Obrigada. Com carinho Marta.

haha! and wow! and "wonder"ful! great stuff these minds are made of....

hey Dave - way down there you said you liked my haiku, good. :) and you mentioned something about hard feelings, none here.

and as Hadi said the other day "Let's Dance!

here's wishing all a good day and Namasté, Forum Friends

Peggy, your sense of wicked humor never ceases to amaze me! You bring me smiles!

Geoff, your "meanderings" are so thought-provoking. I appreciate the charm in your writing.

Hadi, if you're reading out there, greetings and good wishes for you.

It's the middle of the night and I'm too tired to write much more. I can sympathize with whoever had that experience with the rogue post. The other day, I wrote a long post and it disappeared into cyberspace, never made it here in any form! So many people have told me that computers do only what you tell them to do...I'm sure this is a false statement...mine has a mind of its own...sneaky little thing.

Good night all!

Geoff

You are such a nut...and I mean that in the best possible way :-) Ever seen the bumper sticker..."Those who wander aren't necessarily lost :-)" or something similar....

Your posts are great and very useful and thought-provoking...Have you ever read Lila by Robert Pirsig? Did I ask you this before?

you know, for me at least, talking with people like this (via the internet) is not "real" in the usual respects...you all are like disembodied voices to me (I don't mean that in a bad way, btw :-)) because I have never seen any of you or talked to you to hear your voice...."you" are not you when you post, and so this desire of yours to become unattached to "your" thoughts, from "my" point of view ;-) is not necessary--now I am not belittling your decision or anything---really hoping to encourage you to stay :-) I know we do show some "personal" traits in our posts, but for the most part it is still just words on a screen from "out there"...I'm not saying that I have no feelings about you guys, but they too are just sorta out there as I do not have an image to "attach" them to...

I enjoy being a part of your wonderings and learning and radiance, Geoff, in this somewhat limited way!

Great enjoyment in whatever "you" decide...Cathy

Please note the IP address on this post. Compare it with the one a couple of posts down. Draw your own conclusions.

Hi, Geoff. Best of luck in your ventures.

Anonymous "DaveR", thanks, but no thanks. I speak just for myself. Others who can operate their keyboards are their own narrators and certainly don't need my help.

Hi Dave.

By the way, I just appointed myself the position of official forum narrator, speaking on everyone's behalf.

Warning. Large post ahead. Proceed with caution.

Firstly, we all know that addictions can be tough to break. If i ever return again can you please abuse me and tell me I'm crazy (or tell me something I don't know) ... trouble is I'm now not taking anything personally (perhaprs the single greatest piece of advice ever given - if you really think about it - or even if you judt do it :) so even insults might not be enough to break my addiction ... I need help. Does anyone want to start up a Chopra Forum Addicts group? we could meet once a week via the internet and share our experiences ... oh I am wicked aren't I ... :)

So, here are a few more passing thoughts which may or may not be related to recent discussions and which may or may not be of any interest or use to you personally as the case may be.

I am continuing to conduct unauthorised experiments and explorations into into the nature of my (there's that word agian) consciousness. As yet, I have arrived at no frm conclusions. :)

This should surprise nobody. Then again, if it's not 'my' consciousness whose is it? Is consciousness something one can 'own' or possess? But I digress ...

'Love thy enemy' & 'Those who would attack us need our love the most' ... who among us is truly 'impartial'? Is it even possible? I mean it is dead easy to love the bright & the charming & the enlightened & the pleasant & the agreeable & the kind & the those with charisma. Why do most of us have to put in an 'extra effort' to love the abrasive, the confused, the lost, the obnoxious, the miserable, the intolerant? and if it requires 'effort' is t really 'love'? Does any of us really know what it is ... and if we think we know how do we know if we might be mistaken or deluding ourselves?

Anybody els got a headache?

If everything is as it should be how come I got so many questions? :)

We do seem to focus a lot of our attention and energy on whether we 'agree' or disagree' but ultimately what can any of us 'know' beyond a shadow of doubt?

I used to think it was wonderful when people would tell me that 'nobody loves you as much as your family'. Now I'm not so sure that's such a great thing ... unless we all expand the meaning of the word 'family'. Language shapes our consciousness in ways we are barely aware of ... and thus shapes our experiences. But where would we be without it ... we'd have to rely on telepathy or something ... and how would 'telepathy' work without language of some description ...

"True, or unconditional, love is unaware of the strange demands you impose on your relationships. Love is the same for all. Your attempts to reserve love for specific relationships and then withold it from others is the very thing that has blocked your vision of love's presence. Give as love gives - just as the sun that gives its light to all who ask, or the sparrow that sings not for the one who listens, but for the song itself."
- from Emissary of Light (click here)

What a sad commentary on society that anyone who walks around constantly radiating joy & unattached bliss would most likely be regarded as being 'on something' or out-of-his-or-her-mind.

'Enchantment is our natural state'
- Journey Into Healing by Deepak Chopra

'I have absolutely no trouble remaining perfectly at peace within myself ... just as long as people don't bug me!'
- Ghandi

'I feel that one should not limit one's explorations of consciousness to that which we call sanity'
- Al Gore

'Trickling. Trickling. Trickling. My mind is trickling toward me.'
- Anon

'I post whatever happens to pop into my head in the moment. I'm not attached to it. I reserve the right to change my mind without notice.'
- Anon II

Twenty-five years ogo, nobody would have thought it possible. But then a hundred years ago the idea of a place like this was similarly unimaginable. Things change.

I leave you with a little passage from a book I happened to pick up at the library the otter day. It's called The Light of Experience and you know when you pick up a book and you get that strange inexplicable tingling of anticipation (or is that just 'me'?) ... anyway, I open it up and this is what I read ...

"Often in life we find some excuse to do something we already want to do. So I decided to walk round the world for peace and at the centre was this desire to experience the unity of the world and myself. Still looking for belongingness I wished no barriers. My teacher told me to walk without money. He said, 'Money is the greatest barrier between you and people. If you are tired, with money you will go to sleep in a hotel and eat in a restaurant and walk away. If you have no money you will be forced to find somebody who can give you food and shelter and to prove yourself a worthy guest - this way you will meet people.' ...

Now that is what I call 'walking the talk'. Who among us ...

The book is a collection of personal accounts from people like Colin Cowdrey, Maeve Binchy, et. al. about why they see things as they currentlysee things. The above passage comes from "Journey to the West" by Satish Kumar who was born in India in 1939 and became a wandering monk at age nine ... click here for a bit more 'info' ... I like the title of his autobiography No Destination :)

I may or may not decide to post future excerpts from this little book depending on whether you can behave yourselves enough to deserve a bed-time story. If you give me your addresses and the plane fare I can pop over and read them to you and tuck you in. :)

BTW, I'm not 'going' anywhere and most of my future posts will be transmitted telepathically through other 'members'. Or I may find my ego is too attached to this place to easily be detached ... :)

As for the 'reasons' for this strange move. Well, 'strange' is also a comparative term. Take the word 'normal' - try defining it without reference to other human beings. :) I think one of the best pieces of advice is to 'make no comparisons' ... if you really consider the full implications of that kind of mind-set ... some may say it's 'impractical' on a daily basis in the cut-and-thrust of 'life as we know it' ... but I wonder ... it makes me wonder ... and wonder is a wonderful state to be in ... :)

Somebody (apologies for not checking your name - but names are not all important) recently asked if Deepak walks his talk and lives absolutely in each moment ... who can say ... is it really possible as a three-dimensional physical being with a stomach to feed? ... hmmm ... what would a person's experience be if they touched each moment with their entire being ... who can say ...

FOOD4THOUGHT

Sayonara

See you all 'round'

"and on the third day he rose again ..."

J 

If you find any of this post remotely useful please send donations to:
Starving Poet, 21 King George Pde, Dandenong, Austraia, 3175.

Then consult a doctor. :)

Breathe ~ Let go ~ Smile

Namaste.

Favorite cowboy screen star: Pat Buttram

Not that I want to make anyone in particular the butt of a joke, can you answer the following? What/Who is Buttcrack's...

1. favorite song?
("Cheek to Cheek")

2. favorite comedienne?
(Fanny Brice)

3. favorite philosopher?
("Buttrand" Russell)

4. Favorite SNL moment?
(Dan Aykroyd as the refrigerator repairman)

5. Favorite vacation spot?
(Butte, Montana)

6. Favorite flowers?
(Asters and buttercups)

7. Favorite entree?
(rump roast)

{{{Carol!}}}

I marvel that something so beautiful as forgiveness can grow from something that was intended to cause discord and conflict.

Meanwhile, I entertain myself by pondering this: When the Buttcrack of Truth turns the other cheek, does he disappear altogether?

"Without being forgiven, released from the consequences of what we have done, our capacity to act would, as it were, be confined to a single deed from which we could never recover; we would remain the victims of its consequences forever, not unlike the sorcerer’s apprentice, who lacked the magic formula to break the spell."

-- Hannah Arendt

"If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility."

-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

One of the ways these archives have come in handy for me is when I need a little pick-me-up. There are hundreds of posts, some of them spanning days and weeks, when there have been fun and games, sharing of amusing stories about our ups-and-downs, dealing with painful situations somebody was having to get through, comic relief, some really great links to other sites on the web where there are useful and educational works of many kinds, and what I have felt were genuine attempts to bridge those gaps that separate us as human beings.

It doesn't take a lot of effort to locate the darker sides most of us have shown. It does take a little charity to allow those weaknesses to exist in all of us and to see that the weaknesses haven't always prevented us from trying to be better people.

It all gets down to what you're looking for. Odds are that whatever that is, you'll find some examples of it here. Over four years and over 50,000 posts provide a real catalog of people trying to understand each other.

Carol, that's how it appeared to me, too. Is that earth-shaking news? Am I missing something?

Anyone with the patience could surely find more juicy tidbits of conflict and name-calling. Why, there have even been periods when the forum wasn't even available. I found some instances of that just today.

I guess my point to all this is: what's it got to do with anything?

ok, it's my turn. let me see if i can see your point Mr, Ms, & or Mrs anonymous poster(s)

on 2/8/00 Hadi posted that he thought i had lied. and Kate and i had a disagreement, right?

On Tuesday, February 8, 2000, Hadi (Ch@rming.)@200.36.16.98 said:

Let's face it Carol, that is a lie and lying is very unspiritual. ...So, Carol, how is it that you can call yourself Spiritual when you act so selfishly? ... all that "acid" that's leaking out. It's been leaking a long time and it is not only hurting those it is poured on, but it is clearly eating away at your Soul.

On Tuesday, February 8, 2000, Carol ()@152.163.207.63 said:

Kate {Karen} - you have been spreading your *crap* around for months. good for me, that i have been silent!! and guess what, heres some more!

On Tuesday, February 8, 2000, Kate {Karen} (My, my)@129.79.144.74 said:

You do have belittling down to a fine art, don't you, Carol? ...Now, let's get real, Carol -- we can trade crap like that all day.

If you like reading about the origins and connections to folklore of star names, you might like a little further reading on VEGA at http://alfalira.com/Alfalira/vega-e.html.

Another article I read on the "Solar Apex" idea suggests that there are reasons to think that older theories of motion within The Galaxy are in the process of being updated. My own awareness of the "Sun's Way" concept dates from the 1960's. Much has changed since then. :-)

I couldn't resist the urge to find some words on the web to describe in a little more detail what I mentioned in my last post about the cycles/spirals notion. If you want to look further yourself, try a search at Yahoo! or Dogpile for "Apex of the Sun's Way" and check out some of the hits.

Here's an excerpt from one at "Star Gazer" (a PBS short weekly feature):

"Now although I shouldn't play favorites my favorite is the brightest, Vega, the 5th brightest star we can see from Earth. It glistens a crisp sharp blue white which tells us that it is a much, much hotter star than out own yellow-orange Sun. Indeed, compared to our Sun's surface temperature of 10,000 degrees fahrenheit, Vega burns a fierce 17,000 degrees. And whereas our sun is just a little under 1 million miles in diameter, Vega is almost 3 million miles wide. Indeed, if we could place our Sun and Vega side by side, Vega would be 60 times brighter. But the thing I really like to think about when I gaze up at Vega on these crisp autumn nights is that our Sun and all its planets, including our earth, are racing head on toward Vega at the incredible speed of 12 miles a second, that's over 43,000 miles per hour which means that every year we get almost 400 million miles closer. However even though Vega is only 27 light years away, nevertheless at this speed it would take our Sun almost half a billion years to reach it.

Astronomers call this point in space toward which we are rushing "The Apex of the Sun's Way". How lovely. How poetic. So some night this month, perhaps on one of the evenings of Indian Summer, go out just after sunset, look almost overhead, focus on Vega and if you have a vivid imagination, let your spirit soar and you might almost feel our tiny Earth hurtling through space toward this magnificent star, "The Apex of the Sun's Way". What a wonderful venture awaits you these autumn nights if you simply remember to Keep Looking Up!"

Hi Dave--I like that spiral idea! :-) So, in fact the forum is not at the same place exactly, it's moved up on the spiral :-)though it might "appear" to be the same old whatever... New players, new opportunities to learn (possibly the same or similar lesson)...thanks for that insight---I think I've heard it before, now that you mention it...Maybe we should write a new song...All my life's an Upward Spiral?? :-)

I had actually just come back to add that this too shall pass....to return later ;-) Ha! But, now I'll have to think about that....

Thanks! Cathy

Cathy and anonymous poster, one fun thing I've come to understand about cycles might be worth keeping in mind.

Astronomers tell us that the Sun, along with the planets, is moving around the center of our Milky Way Galaxy in a long trip that takes thousands (maybe millions?) of years to complete. And the galaxy itself is moving among other galaxies. They can even point to a place in the sky that indicates where are moving TO and where we are moving FROM.

What this really means to me is that we don't go around in the same circle as the years pass. Instead we're moving in a spiral or helix like a Slinky. As we get back to that same point in the earth's orbit where we were last year, that place has moved! So we never get back to that exact same place.

As Wolfe said, "You can't go home again." Or as an old proverb says, "You can always go back, but you can never return."

Maybe those cycles just feel like we're getting back to same-old-same-old, when in fact we're just being provided with a new way of going through the same (or similar) moves.

However you interpret these facts, as further evidence of reincarnation, as support for the deja vu' concepts, or just as seeing things as slightly different in the way the world looks this October, it can be another tidbit to factor into our thinking.

Was in a rush...also wanted to mention regarding Dave's comment that the forum was much the same last year...maybe this is simply a refelction of what I'm seeing as my circular spiritual life? :-) The times when conflicts appear are when there are two or more people who are "forgetting" some of what they know as far as egos and arguing etc...then too, there are newcomers, like myself who cause trouble by talking "too much" ;-) From what I've seen over the months I've been here, a lot of wisdom is here, it just gets clouded in "personal" agendas sometimes....and that's understandable as we by and large still view ourselves as persons with ideas to share (or that "must" be understood--I'm pointing at myself ;-)

Take heart, Dave...this too shall pass :-)

Cathy

What strange posts...referring to those from Feb/2000...I don't understand the reason for posting them...if you're trying to "prove" that Peggy should leave, it's not working--for me at least :-) I haven't been privey to all the conflicts of days gone by, but I know there are always two sides, and usually it's just a matter of misunderstanding. And maybe a dash of different personaloties :-)

I don't think anyone "makes" anyone else do anything--at least in the context of this forum...from what Geoff said, I don't think he was in the least mad or upset about anything. He just didn't want to be attached to "his" thoughts which he felt posting here was doing?? Hadi was mad, yes, but I'm afraid that I sorta started that one--and I've apologized...what more can one do?

gotta go! Cathy

Carol, thanks for the comments about the haiku. That one is a favorite of mine, and is a great example of how much can be said with a few words.

I haven't written any for a long time now. But that specific haiku by Buson might be an inspiration to try to get back to them.

I appreciate your frankness in your recent posts, and it looks as if you're able to see that by having things in archives we're all needing a little humility in that bygones may not necessarily be bygones. As we try to learn from each other here, and elsewhere, we need to remember where we've been and the things we've said before. Many of those past issues are over and done with. Many new ones face us now. Are we still the same people?

I was searching through the archives just the other day, trying to see where we were a year ago, two years ago, etc. It is sobering to see how little things do change here. But we won't get any better at those things unless we try.

Carol, thanks for the welcome back, and I hope any hard feelings that still remain between you and me can be put to rest.

Big :-)

well, first let me respond to Bob's query about some truth in all posts, i was not speaking of the content of anyone's particular post here. i was simply stating that the anonymous poster (s) have been posting, using my name, without any input from me, whatsoever. i have not asked for anyone to post on my behalf.

and the post where i said i was not discussing these issues here with Peggy was at a time that the anonymous postings gave her every right to feel that i was behind or part of all that was being said. if we could have spoke offline, one on one, we could have cleared this up easily, but due to the tone of the anonymous postings she had every right to feel that she might not be able to trust my motives. i had posted a couple of times that i wasn't involved but too much damage had been done, imo. now it seems she might be a little more open to me, so therefore unknown to the poster that posted the other day, Peggy and i had spoke, together, and it seems we might be able accept healing, now. correct me, Peggy, if i am wrong. i must say that we haven't always agreed and probably there will be other issues that we don't necessarily agree with but i have always been able to talk to Peggy, one on one, and we have always walked away from these discussions feeling better. personally, i don't feel that i have to say anything here about anything but Bob's post did seem to open a door for me and i decided to walk thru it.

as for Geoff and Hadi taking a break from the Forum, so be it, if they so desire but to lay it on Peggy, seems to have no truth in it for me. they are big boys and can decide for themselves. personally, i hope they continue to post here, i love them both, but i will understand if they need to take a break.

as for me, i will come in when i feel like it and post when i feel like it or not.

love to all, even the anonymous posters, and Namasté

you screwed up a font tag, sheesh.

And talk about nit-picking, if there's ever a lice epidemic, you could make a lot of money. Looks like someone's a little anal here, at least Peggy's trying to learn and grow.

Just one 'final' thought ... ummm ... it's an Internet Forum ... a few ords on the screen ... were you expecting to find the ()@216.34.244.49 said:

Pegasus

For an individual whose closest experience to Enlightenment was a 2 minute affair on a balcony, you would be better off typing less and listening more. Wasn't there a quote along the lines of those who speak don't know? Oh yes, you took exception with that as well.

---

On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Geoff (Cathy)@203.12.152.23 said:

Cathy,

Yes, it's a tricky one, isn't it! If you even point out to another human being that they are 'making judgements' then you yourself could be said engaging in the action of making a 'judgement' about what they 'should' or 'should not' be doing. As TO says, if you really took this wisdom absolutely seriously you probably would remain silent ... :) (Note: by 'you' I mean 'anyone' ... if that makes any sense :)

---

On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Geoff (typos)@203.12.152.23 said:

Pardon the typos in the 'passing thoughts - nobody's perfect - that's waht makes this existence so interesting

---

On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Geoff ()@203.12.152.23 said:

---

On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Geoff (Passing thoughts)@203.12.152.23 said:

Passing Thoughts

Good Morning All,

I composed this message off-line as one can neve be quite sure what may have occured 'overnight' at this place inbetween visits. :)

Anyway, having read the forum yesterday, I went on a long walk around Dandenong on a glorious Melbourne spring day. Here are a couple of the passing thoughts I decided to scribble down as I walked along ...

Make of them what-you-will. Some of you may care to make a silk purse out of them. As always, the choice is yours. :)

[  I welcome this 'disruption' to the normal flow of the Forum. I embrace it. We all need a shake-up now and then. To even call it a 'disruption' is to form a judgement about it ... :)

[  Yes, you're quite right - there are many paradoxes about the human experience ... for instance, I love the idea from Starbuilders that instead of bieng troubled by the paradoxes or trying to 'figure it out' intellectually we would be well advised to just SURF the paradox ...

[  And it is useful from time-to-time to remind our selves (we do seem to be terribly forgetful creatures) of all the 'stuff' we need to let go if we want to get 'anywhere' - blame - judgements - opinions - identity - comparisons - expectations - ther may be more to add to this list but I'd say most negative human experiences (and yes, even calling an experience 'negative' ... argh ...) arise from one or other of those human tendencies ...

[  & to welcome everything as an opportuity to see if we have really let go or whether we've just talked about letting go ...

[  The post about 'I, Me Mine' was also a timely reminder. I harken back to the Millennium webcast, where deepak was introducing the Dalai Lama & giving a background into Buddhism and Vedic knowledge etc ... anyway, he said something along the lines that if he could give people just ONE piece of advice it would be that nothing should be clung to as 'me' or 'mine'. That rolls off the tongue fairly easily but just pasue and reflect on how many times you have thought about something as 'my car' or 'my opinion' or 'my body' or 'my life' or 'my children' or 'this house is mine' or 'some thoughts are experienced more personally - I call them mine' ... if one really took Deepak's little tip to heart ... the mind boggles ... well mine does anyway. :)

[     [     [     [    

"MOINKLE-TWUSBY is the lifeness."

(more mantras later)

Chris, your post reminds me of a couple of verses of one of my early efforts at poetry trying to describe my (there's that word again) experiences ... the poem is called Schizophrenia ... (the full version is somehwere at my Home Page)

I used to walk down the street
And scream at everyone I meet
So they locked me away
From the world ev'ry day

I crawled through the walls
So they showed me some normals
They strangled my mind
To help me unwind

To anyone who's still reading this ... hi, how are 'you' going ...

Chris, I may also post a story analogous to yours with the screaming old lady (I think that's how you described her) that i had a similar 'encounter' which helped shift my perspective forever - but that's a story for another 'time' ...

For those of you who are wondering ... yes, i realise that substantial chunks of this message are ego-driven ... I simply observe the fact and make no judgement about it ...

[  All my love to everyone and take good care of your selves

[  Don't forget to brush your teeth properly

[  Be excellent to each other

J  Laugh and the world laughs with you. Laugh too much and they may lock you up for some considerable time.

[  Don't take anything personally.

[  Relax and enjoy the ride - there are no refunds.

[  Treat everything you encounter as a dream.

{For more on this theme - click here}

Oh yes, before I go, I did promise you a few more mantras. I find these mantras quite useful. Your experience may vary. So long. Or as we say downunder, "No worries, mate."

"My little doctor likes to tell me all about the strangeness of my own lifetime."
"My life begins when I jump around like a mad man."
"Oimsy-oimsy-oimsy-little-oimsy."
"I'm not mad ... I am the WORK of lifetimes"
"Relax and enjoy the ride - there are no refunds."
One of my favourite mantras is "MILK IF THE NICENESS OF MILK"

(Note: these mantras work best if you happen to be in an environment such as your local psychiatric ward.)

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Saint ()@216.34.244.105 said:

Are we only repeating history, just changing the words?

"Let he who is without ego cast the first stone."
"The egos of the fathers shall be visited upon their sons."
"Jesus died for our egos."

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@205.188.197.26 said:

Peggy Enjoyed your last post--good points, I think :-) I had just come back to add that one reason some people might return to this forum which is completely NOT about vanity, is to be like the ?bohadvitas? that Geoff mentioned recently...to hang around to try to gently guide us all to what we need to "see" better...that's how I view those who seem to sit in the background most of the time...though, certainly much of the discussion helps me along too--like your last post, Peggy:-)

Namaste all!

Cathy

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@205.188.197.26 said:

"This site will never be much more than a vanity site with periodic unrest thrown in..."

I have a different view of this, while I agree that much of what gets posted has to do with vanity/egos (as in my admission that I might want to *appear* insightful...and now this, being so mature as to admit mistakes! ;-) ha!)...I think that is part of the point. We come to this forum from many different places, emotionally, spritually etc...and all that we express here is part of the waking up--whatever form it might take--the ranting , the sharing of "personal" wisdom, the sharing of lives, the responses to said sharing...I think the idea that we each create our own realities however construed, is something that most of us accept...and so the fact that we are all drawn to this place or choose to return--or not-- despite what we think of things at the moment, has meaning. Perhaps we just need a place to voice "weird" ideas, perhaps we have some ego needs that need to be met before they can then be transcended---whatever. All such "interaction" --even in "real" life--with our loved ones--is the same, in my opinion :-) It's the recognition of oneness, oneconsciousness that is the only thing that changes that--btw, TO I loved that Ming quote! So, meanwhile, most of us here are not at such a point...but we are seeking to be there, however inadequately or brilliantly at present.

Lightening up is sound advice, in my book--which I should heed more often, perhaps! I appreciate this forum for it's contribution to my own not-yet realized awakening.

A closing thought...I've been considering this "mirror" analogy that gets used here a lot, and my own response that it doesn't always apply...in conjunction with the idea of our oneness or being parts of a whole expressing Itself...so, I concede that indeed if we are one, than we are all simply reflecting some aspect of the divine to each other---and with divine intention to show us what we need to see...which would mean also, that the mirror indeed has two faces...hmmm...I'm gonna sit on this one some more--not yet ready to hatch :-)

"When what is is in charge, what isn't has very little credibility and therefore very little influence." Polly Berends from Whole Child...now if I can only figure out what is what is :-)

Cathy

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.49.24 said:

Ahem, that was an excellent post -- well written and thought provoking. A lot of thinking and feeling must have gone into it.

But, being who I am, I would like to address some of the things that I disagree with based on my own experiences and learning. I hope that my comments will not be taken as negative or personally critical.

You said:

"As I've read in several different sources, you lose power when you tell others what you are doing, unless the others are in complete syncronicity with your attitudes and expecatations. Otherwise, you will experience unsolicited criticism or negativity."

Ahem, Jr. addressed this one well. Much depends on the individual. If you are emotionally intelligent, the criticism of others isn't so important that it can take away your power. Except in the most extreme cases, such as brain-washing and torture, your power is under your control.

You said:

"When you do experience that criticism or negativity, you feel you have to explain and defend your statements."

Some people do and others don't. As for me, personally, I don't feel that I have to explain or defend my statements. That is something that I choose to do. For one thing, explaining my thoughts helps to clarify my own thinking for me. Further, an explaination may facilitate understanding among people. These are both positive results of honest exchange.

"This usually leads to frustration and anger."

Sometimes it leads to frustration and anger. And maybe that even happens often. Frustration can certainly be limiting but, depending on how you handle frustration, it can lead to empowerment, self-discovery, creativity and more. Anger can be an appropriate response and also beneficial. It is unhealthy when a person allows it to comsume her (him) or when it is acted out in violent ways. But anger damages a person when it is repressed. There are times, usually on a personal level, when not feeling angry is desireable. But just as often it is an element in making necessary changes in our society.

"...Especially when the person you're defending against has the tenacity of a bulldog."

Ha! Guilty! But my bark is worse than my bite!

"Wayne Dyer says arguing is just a waste of time and effort. 'It is better to be happy than to be right.'"

It wasn't a wasted effort for African-Americans, was it? I like Wayne Dyer but sometimes he makes generalizations such as this that don't hold up under close examination. I can list countless times when anger is not a waste. And the same is true of arguing. Argument doesn't always arise from anger. It can bring about needed change. It is wasted only when one side or the other is closed-minded, static, unwilling to examine another person's viewpoint.

Further, you don't always have to choose between being right and being angry. Sometimes you can be both. I do see the point, however. Some people throw the baby out with the bath water.

You said:

"And again, trying to explain {the spiritual experience} to others just lessens the experience for yourself."

That depends on the person! And it possibly depends on the experience too! I often find the spiritual experiences of others inspiring. Hadi's sharing of his experiences is an excellent example.

"Whatever you put your attention on, you get more of the same. Another thing learned the hard way. Publicly announcing here when you have a bad day or fail at relationships, like we're all guilty at doing, will just add to your bad experiences."

Or it can help to heal.

"Tell it to your dog or cat, write a letter to God, but announcing it to the world will just bring more problems. Even if you're just venting, sooner or later you will bring criticism or unsolicited advice to you..."

And you might grow.

In my opinion, if a person needs to vent almost constantly about very little annoyances (whining), then the person might benefit from counselling to develop patience and other coping skills. It is an investment in a crucial living skill. Also, if a person cannot handle criticism or if a person sees every suggestion as personal criticism that undermines her(his)feelings of self-esteem, counselling can help. As you said about meditation, it (counselling) can be one of the best things you can do for yourself.

"I really don't think you can intellectualize spirituality, like most of us have tried to do here. There are techniques that can be given and should be practiced regularly. Like Terry said, "meditate, meditate, meditate." That is the main point of Deepak's and other's. I hear a lot of people claim they don't have the time. It only takes 20 minutes for a session (though ideally it should be done twice a day). You don't have 20 minutes for one of the best things you can do for yourself? How much time do you spend watching television or movie rentals? Learning to still the mind is a much more positive thing than all of the subliminal influences you experience through the visual media."

I couldn't agree with you more!

You said:

"This site will never be much more than a vanity site with periodic unrest thrown in. There are gems thrown in among the rubble, Hadi contributing many of them and I hope he comes back."

It is often a vanity site with periodic unrest thrown in. But it is more than that. It is a place where very close friendships can be formed, insight gained, knowledge increased. It can lead to good laughs and fun times. (Geoff's posts are a good example.) It can be a resource for people looking for information on alternative medicine, meditation and helpful reading material. The list goes on and on.

You said:

"And remember, these words you type here are archived, what you say in a moment without thinking are saved for posterity..."

I wish that I could say that I'm proud of everything that I've posted. If I had the option of deleting from the archives, I would certainly take advantage of it! But maybe it is good that my shadow side stands for all to see if they want to. It won't taint the universe too much. And it is real.

Kitty, another participant here, once suggested that I read the book Emotional Intelligence. It addresses some of the issues that you have raised and might be helpful.

I wish you peace, growth, healing, insight, contentment, self-respect, independence and joy.

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, kereyra ()@132.254.130.23 said:

I suppose I asked for that Uncle Remus!! : ) Great story. Of course, I had to ask one of my southern colleague to translate for me!!

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Bob F (TO)@165.121.48.232 said:

Yup - The very same wonderful, blissful "void".

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, to (@)@216.236.5.53 said:

" The Great Way is not difficult
for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent
everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction however
and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart."

.................................Hsin Hsin Ming

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, to (@)@216.236.5.53 said:

Not this (nothing) light!

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On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Bob F ()@165.121.52.9 said:

Me thinks everyone should "lighten" up.

Namaste'

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