Just one 'final' thought ... ummm ... it's an Internet Forum ... a few ords on the screen ... were you expecting to find the
()@216.34.244.49 said:
PegasusFor an individual whose closest experience to Enlightenment was a 2 minute affair on a balcony, you would be better off typing less and listening more. Wasn't there a quote along the lines of those who speak don't know? Oh yes, you took exception with that as well.
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Geoff (Cathy)@203.12.152.23 said:
Cathy,
Yes, it's a tricky one, isn't it! If you even point out to another human being that they are 'making judgements' then you yourself could be said engaging in the action of making a 'judgement' about what they 'should' or 'should not' be doing. As TO says, if you really took this wisdom absolutely seriously you probably would remain silent ... :) (Note: by 'you' I mean 'anyone' ... if that makes any sense :)
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Geoff (typos)@203.12.152.23 said:
Pardon the typos in the 'passing thoughts - nobody's perfect - that's waht makes this existence so interesting
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Geoff ()@203.12.152.23 said:
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Geoff (Passing thoughts)@203.12.152.23 said:
Passing Thoughts
Good Morning All,
I composed this message off-line as one can neve be quite sure what may have occured 'overnight' at this place inbetween visits. :)
Anyway, having read the forum yesterday, I went on a long walk around Dandenong on a glorious Melbourne spring day. Here are a couple of the passing thoughts I decided to scribble down as I walked along ...
Make of them what-you-will. Some of you may care to make a silk purse out of them. As always, the choice is yours. :)
[
I welcome this 'disruption' to the normal flow of the Forum. I embrace it. We all need a shake-up now and then. To even call it a 'disruption' is to form a judgement about it ... :)
[
Yes, you're quite right - there are many paradoxes about the human experience ... for instance, I love the idea from
Starbuilders
that instead of bieng troubled by the paradoxes or trying to 'figure it out' intellectually we would be well advised to just SURF the paradox ...
[
And it is useful from time-to-time to remind our selves (we do seem to be terribly forgetful creatures) of all the 'stuff' we need to let go if we want to get 'anywhere' - blame - judgements - opinions - identity - comparisons - expectations - ther may be more to add to this list but I'd say most negative human experiences (and yes, even calling an experience 'negative' ... argh ...) arise from one or other of those human tendencies ...
[
& to welcome everything as an opportuity to see if we have really let go or whether we've just talked about letting go ...
[
The post about 'I, Me Mine' was also a timely reminder. I harken back to the
Millennium webcast, where deepak was introducing the Dalai Lama & giving a background into Buddhism and Vedic knowledge etc ... anyway, he said something along the lines that if he could give people just ONE piece of advice it would be that nothing should be clung to as 'me' or 'mine'. That rolls off the tongue fairly easily but just pasue and reflect on how many times you have thought about something as 'my car' or 'my opinion' or 'my body' or 'my life' or 'my children' or 'this house is mine' or 'some thoughts are experienced more personally - I call them mine' ... if one really took Deepak's little tip to heart ... the mind boggles ... well mine does anyway. :)
[
[
[
[
"MOINKLE-TWUSBY is the lifeness."
(more mantras later)
Chris, your post reminds me of a couple of verses of one of my early efforts at poetry trying to describe my (there's that word again) experiences ... the poem is called Schizophrenia ... (the full version is somehwere at my
Home Page)
I used to walk down the street
And scream at everyone I meet
So they locked me away
From the world ev'ry day
I crawled through the walls
So they showed me some normals
They strangled my mind
To help me unwind
To anyone who's still reading this ... hi, how are 'you' going ...
Chris, I may also post a story analogous to yours with the screaming old lady (I think that's how you described her) that i had a similar 'encounter' which helped shift my perspective forever - but that's a story for another 'time' ...
For those of you who are wondering ... yes, i realise that substantial chunks of this message are ego-driven ... I simply observe the fact and make no judgement about it ...
[
All my love to everyone and take good care of your selves
[
Don't forget to brush your teeth properly
[
Be excellent to each other
J
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Laugh too much and they may lock you up for some considerable time.
[
Don't take anything personally.
[
Relax and enjoy the ride - there are no refunds.
[
Treat everything you encounter as a dream.
{For more on this theme -
click here}
Oh yes, before I go, I did promise you a few more mantras. I find these mantras quite useful. Your experience may vary. So long. Or as we say downunder, "No worries, mate."
"My little doctor likes to tell me all about the strangeness of my own lifetime."
"My life begins when I jump around like a mad man."
"Oimsy-oimsy-oimsy-little-oimsy."
"I'm not mad ... I am the WORK of lifetimes"
"Relax and enjoy the ride - there are no refunds."
One of my favourite mantras is "MILK IF THE NICENESS OF MILK"
(Note: these mantras work best if you happen to be in an environment such as your local psychiatric ward.)
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Saint ()@216.34.244.105 said:
Are we only repeating history, just changing the words?
"Let he who is without ego cast the first stone."
"The egos of the fathers shall be visited upon their sons."
"Jesus died for our egos."
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@205.188.197.26 said:
Peggy Enjoyed your last post--good points, I think :-) I had just come back to add that one reason some people might return to this forum which is completely NOT about vanity, is to be like the ?bohadvitas? that Geoff mentioned recently...to hang around to try to gently guide us all to what we need to "see" better...that's how I view those who seem to sit in the background most of the time...though, certainly much of the discussion helps me along too--like your last post, Peggy:-)Namaste all!
Cathy
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@205.188.197.26 said:
"This site will never be much more than a vanity site with periodic unrest thrown in..." I have a different view of this, while I agree that much of what gets posted has to do with vanity/egos (as in my admission that I might want to *appear* insightful...and now this, being so mature as to admit mistakes! ;-) ha!)...I think that is part of the point. We come to this forum from many different places, emotionally, spritually etc...and all that we express here is part of the waking up--whatever form it might take--the ranting , the sharing of "personal" wisdom, the sharing of lives, the responses to said sharing...I think the idea that we each create our own realities however construed, is something that most of us accept...and so the fact that we are all drawn to this place or choose to return--or not-- despite what we think of things at the moment, has meaning. Perhaps we just need a place to voice "weird" ideas, perhaps we have some ego needs that need to be met before they can then be transcended---whatever. All such "interaction" --even in "real" life--with our loved ones--is the same, in my opinion :-) It's the recognition of oneness, oneconsciousness that is the only thing that changes that--btw, TO I loved that Ming quote! So, meanwhile, most of us here are not at such a point...but we are seeking to be there, however inadequately or brilliantly at present.
Lightening up is sound advice, in my book--which I should heed more often, perhaps! I appreciate this forum for it's contribution to my own not-yet realized awakening.
A closing thought...I've been considering this "mirror" analogy that gets used here a lot, and my own response that it doesn't always apply...in conjunction with the idea of our oneness or being parts of a whole expressing Itself...so, I concede that indeed if we are one, than we are all simply reflecting some aspect of the divine to each other---and with divine intention to show us what we need to see...which would mean also, that the mirror indeed has two faces...hmmm...I'm gonna sit on this one some more--not yet ready to hatch :-)
"When what is is in charge, what isn't has very little credibility and therefore very little influence." Polly Berends from Whole Child...now if I can only figure out what is what is :-)
Cathy
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.49.24 said:
Ahem, that was an excellent post -- well written and thought provoking. A lot of thinking and feeling must have gone into it.
But, being who I am, I would like to address some of the things that I disagree with based on my own experiences and learning. I hope that my comments will not be taken as negative or personally critical.
You said:
"As I've read in several different sources, you lose power when you tell others what you are doing, unless the others are in complete syncronicity with your attitudes and expecatations. Otherwise, you will experience unsolicited criticism or negativity."
Ahem, Jr. addressed this one well. Much depends on the individual. If you are emotionally intelligent, the criticism of others isn't so important that it can take away your power. Except in the most extreme cases, such as brain-washing and torture, your power is under your control.
You said:
"When you do experience that criticism or negativity, you feel you have to explain and defend your statements."
Some people do and others don't. As for me, personally, I don't feel that I have to explain or defend my statements. That is something that I choose to do. For one thing, explaining my thoughts helps to clarify my own thinking for me. Further, an explaination may facilitate understanding among people. These are both positive results of honest exchange.
"This usually leads to frustration and anger."
Sometimes it leads to frustration and anger. And maybe that even happens often. Frustration can certainly be limiting but, depending on how you handle frustration, it can lead to empowerment, self-discovery, creativity and more. Anger can be an appropriate response and also beneficial. It is unhealthy when a person allows it to comsume her (him) or when it is acted out in violent ways. But anger damages a person when it is repressed. There are times, usually on a personal level, when not feeling angry is desireable. But just as often it is an element in making necessary changes in our society.
"...Especially when the person you're defending against has the tenacity of a bulldog."
Ha! Guilty! But my bark is worse than my bite!
"Wayne Dyer says arguing is just a waste of time and effort. 'It is better to be happy than to be right.'"
It wasn't a wasted effort for African-Americans, was it? I like Wayne Dyer but sometimes he makes generalizations such as this that don't hold up under close examination. I can list countless times when anger is not a waste. And the same is true of arguing. Argument doesn't always arise from anger. It can bring about needed change. It is wasted only when one side or the other is closed-minded, static, unwilling to examine another person's viewpoint.
Further, you don't always have to choose between being right and being angry. Sometimes you can be both. I do see the point, however. Some people throw the baby out with the bath water.
You said:
"And again, trying to explain {the spiritual experience} to others just lessens the experience for yourself."
That depends on the person! And it possibly depends on the experience too! I often find the spiritual experiences of others inspiring. Hadi's sharing of his experiences is an excellent example.
"Whatever you put your attention on, you get more of the same. Another thing learned the hard way. Publicly announcing here when you have a bad day or fail at relationships, like we're all guilty at doing, will just add to your bad experiences."
Or it can help to heal.
"Tell it to your dog or cat, write a letter to God, but announcing it to the world will just bring more problems. Even if you're just venting, sooner or later you will bring criticism or unsolicited advice to you..."
And you might grow.
In my opinion, if a person needs to vent almost constantly about very little annoyances (whining), then the person might benefit from counselling to develop patience and other coping skills. It is an investment in a crucial living skill. Also, if a person cannot handle criticism or if a person sees every suggestion as personal criticism that undermines her(his)feelings of self-esteem, counselling can help. As you said about meditation, it (counselling) can be one of the best things you can do for yourself.
"I really don't think you can intellectualize spirituality, like most of us have tried to do here. There are techniques that can be given and should be practiced regularly. Like Terry said, "meditate, meditate, meditate." That is the main point of Deepak's and other's. I hear a lot of people claim they don't have the time. It only takes 20 minutes for a session (though ideally it should be done twice a day). You don't have 20 minutes for one of the best things you can do for yourself? How much time do you spend watching television or movie rentals? Learning to still the mind is a much more positive thing than all of the subliminal influences you experience through the visual media."
I couldn't agree with you more!
You said:
"This site will never be much more than a vanity site with periodic unrest thrown in. There are gems thrown in among the rubble, Hadi contributing many of them and I hope he comes back."
It is often a vanity site with periodic unrest thrown in. But it is more than that. It is a place where very close friendships can be formed, insight gained, knowledge increased. It can lead to good laughs and fun times. (Geoff's posts are a good example.) It can be a resource for people looking for information on alternative medicine, meditation and helpful reading material. The list goes on and on.
You said:
"And remember, these words you type here are archived, what you say in a moment without thinking are saved for posterity..."
I wish that I could say that I'm proud of everything that I've posted. If I had the option of deleting from the archives, I would certainly take advantage of it! But maybe it is good that my shadow side stands for all to see if they want to. It won't taint the universe too much. And it is real.
Kitty, another participant here, once suggested that I read the book Emotional Intelligence. It addresses some of the issues that you have raised and might be helpful.
I wish you peace, growth, healing, insight, contentment, self-respect, independence and joy.
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, kereyra ()@132.254.130.23 said:
I suppose I asked for that Uncle Remus!! : ) Great story. Of course, I had to ask one of my
southern colleague to translate for me!!
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Bob F (TO)@165.121.48.232 said:
Yup - The very same wonderful, blissful "void".
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, to (@)@216.236.5.53 said:
" The Great Way is not difficult
for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent
everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction however
and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart."
.................................Hsin Hsin Ming
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, to (@)@216.236.5.53 said:
Not this (nothing) light!
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Bob F ()@165.121.52.9 said:
Me thinks everyone should "lighten" up.Namaste'
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Uncle Remus (South)@216.34.244.106 said:
THE WONDERFUL TAR BABY STORY
"Didn't the fox never catch the rabbit, Uncle Remus?" asked the little boy the next evening.
"He come mighty nigh it, honey, sho's you born--Brer Fox did. One day atter Brer Rabbit fool 'im wid dat calamus root, Brer Fox went ter wuk en got 'im some tar, en mix it wid some turkentime, en fix up a contrapshun w'at he call a Tar-Baby, en he tuck dish yer Tar-Baby en he sot 'er in de big road, en den he lay off in de bushes fer to see what de news wuz gwine ter be. En he didn't hatter wait long, nudder, kaze bimeby here come Brer Rabbit pacin' down de road--lippity-clippity, clippity -lippity--dez ez sassy ez a jay-bird. Brer Fox, he lay low. Brer Rabbit come prancin' 'long twel he spy de Tar-Baby, en den he fotch up on his behime legs like he wuz 'stonished. De Tar Baby, she sot dar, she did, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"`Mawnin'!' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee - `nice wedder dis mawnin',' sezee.
"Tar-Baby ain't sayin' nuthin', en Brer Fox he lay low.
"`How duz yo' sym'tums seem ter segashuate?' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee.
"Brer Fox, he wink his eye slow, en lay low, en de Tar-Baby, she ain't sayin' nuthin'.
"'How you come on, den? Is you deaf?' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee. 'Kaze if you is, I kin holler louder,' sezee.
"Tar-Baby stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"'You er stuck up, dat's w'at you is,' says Brer Rabbit, sezee, 'en I;m gwine ter kyore you, dat's w'at I'm a gwine ter do,' sezee.
"Brer Fox, he sorter chuckle in his stummick, he did, but Tar-Baby ain't sayin' nothin'.
"'I'm gwine ter larn you how ter talk ter 'spectubble folks ef hit's de las' ack,' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee. 'Ef you don't take off dat hat en tell me howdy, I'm gwine ter bus' you wide open,' sezee.
"Tar-Baby stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"Brer Rabbit keep on axin' 'im, en de Tar-Baby, she keep on sayin' nothin', twel present'y Brer Rabbit draw back wid his fis', he did, en blip he tuck 'er side er de head. Right dar's whar he broke his merlasses jug. His fis' stuck, en he can't pull loose. De tar hilt 'im. But Tar-Baby, she stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"`Ef you don't lemme loose, I'll knock you agin,' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee, en wid dat he fotch 'er a wipe wid de udder han', en dat stuck. Tar-Baby, she ain'y sayin' nuthin', en Brer Fox, he lay low.
"`Tu'n me loose, fo' I kick de natal stuffin' outen you,' sez Brer Rabbit, sezee, but de Tar-Baby, she ain't sayin' nuthin'. She des hilt on, en de Brer Rabbit lose de use er his feet in de same way. Brer Fox, he lay low. Den Brer Rabbit squall out dat ef de Tar-Baby don't tu'n 'im loose he butt 'er cranksided. En den he butted, en his head got stuck. Den Brer Fox, he sa'ntered fort', lookin' dez ez innercent ez wunner yo' mammy's mockin'-birds.
"`Howdy, Brer Rabbit,' sez Brer Fox, sezee. `You look sorter stuck up dis mawnin',' sezee, en den he rolled on de groun', en laft en laft twel he couldn't laff no mo'. `I speck you'll take dinner wid me dis time, Brer Rabbit. I done laid in some calamus root, en I ain't gwineter take no skuse,' sez Brer Fox, sezee."
Here Uncle Remus paused, and drew a two-pound yam out of the ashes.
"Did the fox eat the rabbit?" asked the little boy to whom the story had been told.
"Dat's all de fur de tale goes," replied the old man. "He mout, an den agin he moutent. Some say Judge B'ar come 'long en loosed 'im - some say he didn't. I hear Miss Sally callin'. You better run 'long."
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@64.12.104.189 said:
HadiI had an epiphany of sorts this am upon awakening, and it has lead me to want to apologize to you (if anyone has Hadi's personal email, perhaps they can pass this along to him for me?)--I should not have posted my thoughts about you and Grace--in actual fact, I tried to ee you personally just to keep it private, but it was undeliverable--and then I rationalized that you had been very open in "public"...anyway, I recognize now that while I may have thought I was only trying to be helpful, if I had been more considerate, reflected more before posting, I would have refrained from "sharing" my thoughts on something I can't possibly know about! I think there was an element of wanting to share what I *saw* to appear insightful--not consciously at the time, of course. Honestly, I had no hurtful intentions behind my post...I just haven't learned when to speak and when to hold my tongue...offering such advice to someone I know well or who was asking is one thing...but as you said, you didn't post to be analyzed, as if I could with such a brief bit of information!
I think you and I still have our differences about how to communicate :-) but it is helping me learn about realm of concern, realm of influence....I am grateful for that :-)
Namaste!
Cathy
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, kereyra ()@132.254.130.23 said:
what is a tar baby?
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, carol (wowsers!)@38.37.124.248 said:
i had to print out some of this great stuff to read, later, i'll be back! ;)
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Abhijit (sap_ab@hotmail.com)@210.214.226.3 said:
Dear Deepak ,
"I" am reading your lastest book on " How to know GOD". It is realy an amazing journey of the soul in unknow world.
But I have many questions in mind.
One of it is that when we talk of spirituality we don`t talk about human suffering and problems of corruption in the society . So we are totally cut of from the kind of world where we have " KARMA".
There!(In real world) body plays an importent role than Spirit cos we do "Karma" for our body and satisfaction of hopes of our parents in materialistic world.
Sir , However I very much apppreciat your work to investigate Journey of "The" soul in this way .
Sir , with deep belief in GOD , I request you to tell me "How we appreciate role of Sexual life of man or women in Materialistic as well as in all stages of souls` Journey in Seven stages descrided by you?."
Sir , this is an importent question because all our concept of Sin and holiness is mingling around Sexual activities right from the era of Mahabharta .
Sir I hope that I am clear on what I want to convey to you but if you are not really appreciating what I want to say Please convey it to me . I will be very greatfull to hear from you.
With deep sence of respect .
"I " remain.
Abhijit Sule.
Email : sap_ab@hotmail.com
On Thursday, October 5, 2000, Ahem Jr. ()@216.34.244.150 said:
or you could just not care what other people think and welcome the unsolicited advice and criticism
that is if your ego will let you
Hadi will be back - his ego need continual stroking
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Ahem (!)@216.34.244.19 said:
"Anonymous ones." I do know that I'm not female, not the critical poster and not Gyte. I'm not afraid of my shadow, but rather find it fun to occasionally post anonymously (especially when KAOS hits here).You too can be anonymous!
Anonymizer.comAnd as for this forum and others, I've learned a lot in my roughly four years here, both anon. and under my real identity. I can empathize with Hadi, baring his soul about his relationship after being asked to do so, only to be analyzed over his words.
Things I've started to learn on this journey:
1. As I've read in several different sources, you lose power when you tell others what you are doing, unless the others are in complete syncronicity with your attitudes and expecatations. Otherwise, you will experience unsolicited criticism or negativity. Or at the least, it's the ego talking, telling others how great you are because your accomplishments or knowledge. I know my early days of posting here were mainly in the "hey, look at me and what I just read or did" direction. Which leads to...
2. When you do experience that criticism or negativity, you feel you have to explain and defend your statements. This usually leads to frustration and anger. Especially when the person you're defending against has the tenacity of a bulldog. Wayne Dyer says arguing is just a waste of time and effort. "It is better to be happy than to be right." Besides, this whole spiritual thing is mainly a personal experience. Different people experience things in different ways. And again, trying to explain it to others just lessens the experience for yourself.
3.Whatever you put your attention on, you get more of the same. Another thing learned the hard way. Publicly announcing here when you have a bad day or fail at relationships, like we're all guilty at doing, will just add to your bad experiences. Tell it to your dog or cat, write a letter to God, but announcing it to the world will just bring more problems. Even if you're just venting, sooner or later you will bring criticism or unsolicited advice to you, catching you like a tar baby (see #2).
4. I really don't think you can intellectualize spirituality, like most of us have tried to do here. There are techniques that can be given and should be practiced regularly. Like Terry said, "meditate, meditate, meditate." That is the main point of Deepak's and other's. I hear a lot of people claim they don't have the time. It only takes 20 minutes for a session (though ideally it should be done twice a day). You don't have 20 minutes for one of the best things you can do for yourself? How much time do you spend watching television or movie rentals? Learning to still the mind is a much more positive thing than all of the subliminal influences you experience through the visual media. Yogananda said that meditation was much better for a person than sleep is. He was such a deep meditator that he often didn't sleep at all.
This site will never be much more than a vanity site with periodic unrest thrown in. There are gems thrown in among the rubble, Hadi contributing many of them and I hope he comes back. And remember, these words you type here are archived, what you say in a moment without thinking are saved for posterity, or at least until Random House decides to purge their drives.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.48.22 said:
And this is from the same source as Gyte's post, A Course in Happiness:
Filtered interpretation
"Most, if not all of our messages we send to others, are subject to an inner filtration system in which they will filter and interpret the message in ways that makes the listener feel comfortable and secure. The programming that makes up their Fortress of Insecurity will filter and screen incoming messages and attempt to seek out a meaning that complies with their current attitudes, opinions and concerns. If it doesn’t comply, the fortress defenses go up and the message and its meaning literally falls on deaf ears. Our preferred messages, those that capture our ready attention and interest, will be those that reinforce the existing structure of our fortress. So if somebody sends us a message that agrees with the beliefs and attitudes with which we interpret our reality, it will be readily accepted. This means if we want to effectively get our message across to someone, we need to express it in terms of their existing interests, their existing attitudes and their particular points of view."
Even though I disagree with some of it, there is a lot of sound thinking and good material offered in this course which is free on the internet. The author's name was unavailable.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Gyte Poon ()@216.34.244.18 said:
Ego
Defining the ego.
What is the ego? The ego is energy. It is none other than the
accumulated energy of our own way of thinking, our own emotions, our
own experiences, our own beliefs. We own all of these things, and they
each in turn, own us. Each of us has created an ego, and this ego
maintains and perpetuates our own way of thinking. The ego can be
defined as a separated sense of individuality (our personality), which
expresses itself via the medium of the physical body. The ego is a
wrong-minded attempt to perceive yourself as you wish to be, rather
than as you really are. It’s characterized by complexity and confusion
rather than simplicity. The ego believes if you don’t fear the past and
worry about the future, the world will fall apart.
Breaking down the fortress.
The ego fortress is nothing more than a self-made delusion. Having
made it yourself, you are responsible for dismantling it. The bricks that
make up its walls are nothing more than past memories. The fortress is
a defense mechanism put in place by the ego in order for it to feel safe.
Never lose sight of the fact that the ego-personality is something you
have adopted, and is not something you are. In the final analysis, your
visible persona is really no more than the ego pulling the strings to your
collection of attitudes, reactions and beliefs.
Ego as an extension of my past.
Seen through the eyes of the ego, my identity is dependent on the
opinions and judgments other people have about me, as well as the
opinions and judgments I have about myself. My present identity is
seen simply as an extension of my past. My ego has been with me since
early childhood. It’s been nurtured by almost everyone I have ever
been in contact with. Unfortunately, generations of those nurturers have
also been dominated by their egos.
The mask of insecurity.
Personality is a derivative of the Latin word "persona" which was used
to describe a mask sometimes used by Greek actors in times long past.
It is common knowledge that the vast majority of human beings hide
their true self behind a mask -- the deceptive mask of the ego
personality.
We strut around the world stage behind our masks, playing a role that
we think others expect of us, never really daring to drop the facade and
reveal the true self. Lay our real selves bare to the world? Never --
that’s just too dangerous.
Sometimes during times of crisis, the mask may slip a little, and our
vulnerability -- our insecurities -- become exposed. The ego, once
exposed and threatened, will then set about building even sturdier
defenses. Brick by brick, hurtful memory after hurtful memory, a
fortress takes shape to defend our vulnerabilities. Inside this fortress we
feel safe, yet isolated, never realizing it is this very isolation and
separation than adds to our feelings of insecurity.
We become so skillful in playing out our roles that we lose sight of the
fact that it is just an act.
We eventually adopt this illusionary persona we have adopted and
accept it as our real self. Barricaded behind the fearful walls of its
self-made fortress, the personality ego then spends the rest of its life
trying to make sense of its make-believe role and the illusions of the
other ego personalities sheltering within their personal fortress.
The changing truth of the ego.
Ego’s truth changes constantly because it is always relative. What is
"true" is whatever the majority believe to be correct at any given time.
Ego thrives on doubt.
Our ego likes to increase our levels of doubt by raising questions such
as, "Are you sure you’re not just fooling yourself?" Questions such as
these enable the ego to instill a fear of change and maintain its limiting
hold on our awareness.
Ego’s fear of attack.
Fear is essential for the survival of the ego, for without fear the ego
would cease to exist. This fear is based on the perception of being
attacked, and the ego’s advice to us when we perceive ourselves as
being attacked is to be afraid and defensive — or attack our attacker.
According to our ego, fear is not a choice, but an unavoidable part of
our existence.
Judgment is of the ego.
By encouraging us to become fault-finders and judgment makers, the
ego blocks our awareness of the very acceptance we seek.
Ego focuses only on the external world.
Our ego tries to persuade us that if only the world and its people would
act differently, or a situation would change, all our problems would
disappear.
A fearful world is an illusion created by ego.
Whenever we condemn others or even ourselves, we are allowing our
minds to be fed by fearful illusions created by our ego, and we become
imprisoned by these distortions.
Honesty blocked by ego.
At times your ego may wish to barter with you and say, "I’ll be open
and expose my feelings to my partner only when my partner is open
and honest with me."
This attitude can block honesty for an entire lifetime! Your ego is
attempting to place all the responsibility upon the other person --
avoiding any possibility that you might learn the freedom honesty can
bring.
Ego’s likes and dislikes.
The underlying cause of most people’s unhappiness is the ego’s almost
complete dependence of liking and disliking as a way of life. Their most
memorable experiences and topics of conversation are usually based on
what they like and dislike about people, places and things.
An anchor around our necks.
The ego mind anchors us to the body and its many needs and desires,
and prevents us from taking even one step towards our true potential
and true identity.
Letting go.
The expression, "Let go and let God", suggests we actually let go of
our own ego and its attachment to all it holds dear, and allow our true
self to be expressed through our personality, which it will only do if we
ask it to. If we would only let go of whatever false security shackles us,
we could be free.
Ego is to serve us, not enslave us.
The rationale, the intellect, i.e. the ego is here to serve you. You are not
the slave of your intellect unless you choose to be. You do not change
the enslavement by denial, by pushing the ego away. The ego is
terrified of annihilation, of no longer being needed. You can effect
trauma-free change by embracing the ego with the approach, "Don’t
worry. We’ll make the change together."
Ego the defender.
The ego sees itself as your personal defender. It sets itself up as the first
line of defense against the world "out there." What was intended to be
a servant has in most cases become the master. The ego operates the
defense mechanism which keeps you from higher awareness. Rather
than react to the ego’s defensive tactics, quietly observe and be aware
that it acts as it does only because it fears it will become redundant.
Appeasing the ego’s of others.
Getting hooked into someone else’s story is of no benefit to you or
anyone else. To be concerned that others will not love you if you do
not appear loving and caring is to buy into their ego trip and to fall into
the trap of judging yourself. If you are acting only to appease the ego of
others, or you are acting from your own ego, or social conscious -- you
are buying in. It’s called disservice -- to both yourself and to them.
The rituals of the ego.
Man’s ego has him attempting to be like the rest of the crowd, always
trying to gain the approval of others, which reinforces the need for ritual
conduct. He lives for the approval of others, of other’s opinions, acting
out his assigned roles efficiently and properly for fear of rejection.
Recognizing the illusion.
We labor under the illusion that our present personality, the sum of
which we call our ego, is our true self. This is simply not so. The ego is
something our true self created. It’s like a magician’s trick. We know
it’s an illusion, and we strive to learn how it’s done. Once we see it’s
just an illusion, we quickly lose interest. We lose our fascination of the
illusion. Our purpose in life then, is to recognize this veil of illusion, and
once the impostor is revealed, truth enters our life. Happiness then
becomes a way of life.
The collective world ego.
The world ego is an extension of all the individual egos of the planet in
conflict with each other, fighting their battles to prove just how separate
they are from each other.
The world ego is not who we are as people, but what we believe we are
as a collective species.
Nationalism represents the selfishness or egoism of a nation and will
prevail as long as ego is honored as the bearer of truth. As long as we
have nation states and imaginary boundaries we will be dominated by
the world ego. There is nothing more powerful than an idea who’s time
has come. The demise of the world ego is long overdue.
Who’s the boss?
Science tells us we use only ten percent of the brain’s true potential.
What prevents us from utilizing the full capabilities of this magnificent
utility . . . and why? In comparison with the full potentiality that we can
become, the ego represents just a tiny part of our mind. It is the part
which has adopted the role of boss. In this role it attempts to protect
you with the false idea that your physical being is the sum total of who
you are and it must be protected and thus focused upon at all times.
The ego as our historical selves.
The ego requires a constant reliving of memories in order to sustain a
continuity of its own.
It is only aware of itself as a repeatedly updated autobiography. The
ego does not actually exist -- it is an illusion of continuity. It is built up
from an edited picture album of our past. What we have been is nicely
and securely fixed in our subconscious. We become more and more
identified with the past, with old knowledge and fixed belief systems
which continue to bolster our historical selves -- and we forget that
there ever was anything else.
A fear of change.
The ego fears change and it will always try to keep the status quo,
because that’s all its ever known. The ego’s creed is, "The way things
have always been must be the best because it works. How do I know it
works? Well, I’m still here aren’t I?"
That’s all the ego cares about -- its survival. Not happiness, not
satisfaction -- just survival.
Recycling old knowledge.
The ego prefers to recycle old knowledge rather than risk experiencing
something new. Based on what it has experienced in the past, it
separates the world into what it feels is right for us and what it feels is
wrong for us.
Instinctive behavior.
If a tiger growls and roars at you through the bars of its cage, would
you feel offended? Of course not. The tiger was just being a tiger.
Whether you like it or not, your fellow humans are in some ways just
like the tiger. They are just doing what they do. When you have tamed
your ego, you are no longer offended by the behavior of your fellow
humans. Free of the ego’s illusions, you see your fellow humans as they
are -- not as you think they should be.
How awareness can control the ego.
Let’s imagine your ego as a sour-faced little entity that sits on your
shoulder. It’s there for a purpose. It wants you to feel outraged when
you are wronged, insulted when you are ignored, offended when you
don’t get your own way, and hurt when you lose a contest or an
argument. The more you become aware of its presence, the less control
it has over your thoughts and behavior. Because of your growing
awareness, its service are no longer required. It becomes redundant.
Ego is the cross we choose to bear.
Ego is a projection of the conscious mind. Conscious mind is the
reception station at the nerve endings of the five senses. It is a
classifying, calculating, analyzing machine governed solely by sensory
stimuli and perceives all things as existing outside itself. It builds
patterns of habits and perceives the movement of time. The ego is
comprised of habits and memories, and prompts us to act fearfully in
the light of past experiences. The ego’s perception of reality is what our
lives become. This thing we falsely call "I", this ego, sees its limitations
and brings those limitations into our lives. It fears and hates and envies,
for it seeks constantly to puff itself up, by vain posturing, by blind
attitude, and it brings into our lives the physical results of these mental
causes, and keeps us constantly in chains.
Ego and its self-delusion
The ego’s perception of other egos as being real is only an attempt to
convince itself that it too is real.
Ego by any other name.
Self-esteem is another name for ego and any perceived threat to one’s
"self-esteem" manifests as anxiety and stress.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@64.12.104.38 said:
Geoff Loved the cartoon...good thing I'm so nonjudgmental ;-) Ha! Cathy
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@64.12.104.38 said:
Well, my detachment lasted only two days, but I feel ready to return--even if you weren't ready for me ;-) Wow! So much has been said! Personally, I don't think "fighting" and arguing per se is anything to bemoan or complain about--I'm not saying it's a thing for which to strive, but it can be viewed as simply the false proving itself false...and that is a blessing :-)One thing that occured to me this evening is that this mode of exchange is relatively new, and it behooves us to be especially careful in how we say things--someone who commented on my defensiveness read Hadi's post in a different way than I did-they sensed a humor unseen by me :-)--and I'm sure that was reflective of this same person thinking Hadi is a genius...whereas I guess I had not really let go of feeling condescended to by him, as I had thought I did :-( The point being, one cannot see the hint of a smile or the mischievous glint in the eye as these exchanges transpire to "get" the emotion or tone of what someone is saying---as you have probably noticed, I use smiles :-) and winks ;-)a lot to try to get that across...
Kereya's post about learning to see ourselves "objectively"--or at least as others typically see us was interesting...someone else talked about differing points of reference to see ourselves...I think it's important to accept some outside opinion, while retaining final "rights" to "judge" ourselves--for example, if I think I am loving and kind, but people I am in contact with disagree, then something is likely getting lost in the translation from my inner intentions to the outer expression of those intentions...there are always exceptions, but I think this is a valid approach...though I have no idea how you help someone see that his own view of himself isn't always the best one :-)Actually, I guess I do think that Life will continue to present him/her with opportunities to discover what he/she needs to see...
Carol Your posts of continued support and seeing the God in us, I appreciated :-) Which reminds me--someone also said that Hadi shouldn't "waste his time" posting here but go and write a book...while he may well have a book in him, I do not think that posting here (or really anything in Life, for that matter) is a waste of time. The people on this forum, including the anonymous one who is afraid of his shadow, he said, are still emanations of God, and inherently worthy...just because we've been bickering and perhaps showing our own "bad" sides, makes us no less worthy...as I see it, anyway :-)
But, your nonjudgment did also bring a question to mind...which I think the answer is forming in my mind as I ask it :-) I was going to say, how do we "help" people overcome "bad" habits/ways of being (as related to Kereya's post)?? In some ways, being "called on the carpet" for it seems like a good idea...I know that I have seen that I can be too sensitive and/or defensive because of having people say so and then reflecting on it (and hopefully the lesson will stick)...but that is indeed passing judgment, is it not? Yet it worked? Then again, I have read of true love being in the beholding of the beloved in their truth--that of a child/whatever of God and seeing all the "problems" as just false and as a result of ignorance of truth vs any malevolence etc...haven't "done" that enough to know if it really works--though I guess "working" isn't the goal here! Then the answer that came to me was that we don't have to "do" anything to change people...that working on ourselves is the best way to effect change "out there"...though I still grapple with this one :-) What about the Hitlers of the world, or the abusers...I know we can take action while still understanding that the "bad" guy has God in him, and is doing the best he can in his currennt understanding, to borrow from Deepak,...but it does involve some aspect of judgment, doesn't it? I suppose you could look at in like CWG...vs judgment, seeing it as choosing who we want to be in response to something, plain and simple.
Last thing, I promise :-) The point of dialogue and even having a forum to discuss ideas--I've noticed that some people just put ideas out there and do not engage in "discussing" them which amounts to explaining or defending one's original thought :-) And I think that is good...but I also see benefit in the further explanation, and counter points in that they may bring certain things to light for others who are wanting to understand...I love playing with ideas and wonderings, and don't always have difficulties with doing so--but that's because I typically do so with friends who think largely like me :-)In an open forum such as this, with people I don't truly know, I think I have hit upon a solution--for me, at least :-) I can still share my opinions and thoughts, and try to clarify, maybe once, maybe not at all, and then just acknowledge that we see things differently, and respectfully let it go...
Blessings!
Cathy
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Geoff ()@203.12.152.23 said:
Wonderful advice today - if you can read between the lines
Thankyou
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Geoff ()@203.12.152.23 said:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Elvis Costello (My Aim is True)@216.34.244.19 said:
Once upon a time, I had a little money.
Government burglars took it long
before I could mail it to you.
Still, you are the only one.
Now I can't let it slip away.
So if the man with the ticker tape,
he tries to take it,
well this is what I'm gonna say.
Blame it on Cain.
Don't blame it on me.
Oh, oh, it's nobody's fault,
but we need somebody to burn.
Well if I was a saint with
a silver cup
and the money got low
we could always heat it up
or trade it in.
But then the radio to heaven will be wired to your purse.
And then you can run down the wave band,
coast to coast, hand in hand.
Better or worse, curse for curse,
don't be dissatisfied.
So you're not satisfied.
Blame it on Cain.
Don't blame it on me.
Oh, oh, it's nobody's fault,
but we need somebody to burn.
I think I've lived a little too long
on the outskirts of town
I think I'm going insane
from talking to myself for so long.
Oh but I've never been accused.
When they step on your face,
you wear that good look grin.
I gotta break out one weekend
if I do somebody in.
But every single time
I feel a little stronger,
they tell me it's a crime.
Well how much longer?
Blame it on Cain.
Don't blame it on me.
Oh, oh, it's nobody's fault,
but it just seems to be his turn.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, George (Apple Corps)@216.34.244.150 said:
All thru' the day I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
All thru' the night I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
Now they're frightened of leaving it
Ev'ryone's weaving it,
Coming on strong all the time,
All thru' the day I me mine.
I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine,
I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine.
All I can hear I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
Even those tears I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
No-one's frightened of playing it
Ev'ryone's saying it,
Flowing more freely than wine,
All thru' the day I me mine.
I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine,
I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine.
All I can hear I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
Even those tears I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
No-one's frightened of playing it
Ev'ryone's saying it,
Flowing more freely than wine,
All thru' your life I me mine.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, gyte (poon)@216.34.244.150 said:
This place is going downhill in a hurry. Maybe it's
time for some of the "old" posters to "move on".
either that or give thee an emema
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Bob F ()@165.121.48.79 said:
Isn't it funny, most of us are here at the Forum to learn and to get help in our progression toward full Enlightenment. Then, someone tosses out constructive food for thought and everyone starts thinking it is directed specifically at them. Talk about egos running amuck and paranoia!!
My comments are what they are. I am not going to defend them and don't particularly care if you choose to print them out and use them for toliet paper. If my comments help, fine, and if not - move on.
Namaste'
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, | (|)@216.34.244.103 said:
People who post at the forum must now leave out any references to the self. Any statements of opinion must omit the "IMO" designation. That way you are not talking about yourself, right? Better yet, don't express opinions. and don't talk about your experiences. They are ego based. Give orders. Ridicule. Don't accept responsibility for your thoughts and feelings. Post anonymously or in another passive-agressive manner. Pretend you are not here.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, to (@)@216.236.5.242 said:
Sorry (|)(|), that was for ( | )( | ).
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, TO (@)@216.236.5.242 said:
(|)(|), thanks for "understanding".
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Assumptions ()@216.34.244.19 said:
Some interesting definitions from the Random House Dictionary
Defensive - Excessively concerned with guarding again the real or imagined threat of criticism, injury to one's ego, or exposure of one's shortcomings
Ego: - Self-esteem or self-image; feelings. the enduring element that knows experience. The complete person comprising both body and soul.
Argument - a discussion involving differing points of view
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, ( | ) ( | )@216.34.244.105 said:
self deprecation doesn't make one wise
Bob, thanks for understanding. The "I", "We" stuff gets thick in here at times.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.52.195 said:
Duh, I did it again.
That last post was supposed to be directed at kereyra -- not written by her!
Sorry!
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, kereyra ()@209.86.52.195 said:
In my opinion, our ability to see ourselves as others see us varies with the individuals involved. Some people are more open to constructive criticism. Others see all of it as projection. Still others pay too much attention to the opinions of others. (Example: When "Why?" used the anonymizer because she (he) is afraid of what I might say.)
Tact is usually helpful but I'm not very good at that.
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us..."
--from "To a Louse" by Robert Burns
I also want to thank you for sharing the experience that occurred while you were travelling. I should have said something earlier because I find it personally meaningful. But it is hard to know exactly what to say in response.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.52.195 said:
Bob said:
"216.34.244.xxx - Keep posting anonymously – you are good at keeping everyone focused and off of the I, Me, My, Mine"
The irony of this post is that some of the same people that you criticize for having ego problems are the ones that you praise for focusing us through the anonymizer. What a paradox! Why are their words more valuable without a name attached?
Defensiveness doesn't bother me but it does seem to both you. So why are you so defensive?
I am reminded of a twist on "conjugation" that we used to play in school For example:
I am pleasing plump.
You are overweight.
He is a fat slob.
Only, in this case, it's:
I am wise.
You are too defensive.
He makes victims of people with his ego.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Silvia (S@W)@24.113.35.216 said:
Hey Pat!
Good to see you I was wondering if you moved to Salt Spring already and how it was going? Salt Spring is beautiful and the next time I go there I would like to visit you if you are into it. I haven't been to the forum for a while because I have been so
busy. Between running the web & hosting company, family and Tae Box classes I haven't had extra time.
Anyone Interested
I am posting some links to one of my early drafts for my latest web proposal projects if anyone has any comments email me
hostthemost@hotmail.com By the way it is in construction mode but I would be interested to hear opinions on the work so
far. It is for a Yacht company, never did one of those before.
Flash Demo
One Page Demo (incomplete)
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, kereyra ()@132.254.130.23 said:
It's getting close to that time of the month...exams loom ever nearer,
driving students and teachers to greater depths of madness. I for one am turning
off the noise of the fax, copying machine, telephones cellular and not, brewing coffee,
a hundred fingers on keyboards, the power saw and all other irritations, paying attention only
to this page and a cup of hot, green ginger tea...a pleasure for taste and smell.
The packaging for the tea promises a meditative moment that will "soothe your psyche and enlighten your spirit."
Ah! The magic that can be found in a cup of tea! Seriously, though, the tea has provided a moment of respite in an otherwise
everyday day.
It may have gone unnoticed, but I posed a question I'd like to get some feedback on. How far away does one have to get from
himself in order to view one's self as others do? Takers?? Have a great day!
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Hmmmmm (Bob F.)@216.34.244.18 said:
Often, people working from what they perceive as a higher level of awareness (may or may not be true), get awfully full of themselves and pontificate to those they view as being at a lower level of awareness (again - may or may not be true).
Isn't that what Peggy was saying except that she said it in a more direct and less aggressive way?
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Bob F ()@165.121.52.28 said:
Peggy - Agreed, it is hard to have a forum or for people to become enlightened if you translate literally "Those who know don't speak". However, the last part of the quote "Those who speak don't know" is helpful and a reminer to all if you do not translate it too literally.Often, people working from what they perceive as a higher level of awareness (may or may not be true), get awfully full of themselves and pontificate to those they view as being at a lower level of awareness (again - may or may not be true).
I am often as guilty as the next person.
Again, just food for thought.
Namaste'
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.43 said:
Pegasus, it's an "inside" thing, kinda like
Kererya's (or any of "us") not being able to
relate the "experience" in words, but able to
give details about "conditions" at the time.For
myself, "I" know that my
experiences will not be as anyone else's, as
in just reading about one's that have been
shared just at this Forum, "they" are too vast,
"crazy", unfathomable, etc.
There is an
"other worldly" (4th dimension) aspect to all
of them though.
When I say "I" don't know........
I'm saying that "I" don't know what will trigger
another's experience, OR, what "IT" will be
like. What "I" do know is that by certain
"methods", "they'll" come.
For my "admirer"....
"You" can "(quote)" "me" on "THAT".
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.43 said:
Namaste'why @so your quote of Peggy's:
"....about the condescension that often comes across in his writing"
Please note..........
"....about the condescension that often comes across in his writing"
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, carol ()@38.37.124.63 said:
personally, i don't agree with that statement that those that know don't speak. i know jesus knew and he spoke, and many, many more, too numerous to mention spoke and speaks and always will, too, imo.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, carol ()@38.37.124.63 said:
hey Kate - nice to see you here, again. i missed you and hope things are going good for you.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.48.9 said:
Bob F., it's hard to have a forum where those who know don't speak.:-)
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Kate (Bob)@129.79.144.74 said:
I meant in reply to one of the anonymous posters who asked if I were still kissing Hadi's ass. See how an unclear sentence can screw things up. I knew you weren't addressing me, but only offered something for your information. You didn't know that I was addressing one of the anonymous folk. Sorry 'bout that. Of course, it was perfectly clear to me. LOL!
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Bob F ()@165.121.48.94 said:
Kate - Thanks for the info that 216.34.244.xxx could be several individuals rather than one person. I still find the comments help keep us from getting to focused on "I, Me, My, Mine".Please Note - I was not addressing you directly and do not understand "That karen woman" response but - if the shoe fits, etc., etc.
Namaste',
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Kate (Bob)@129.79.144.74 said:
Just so's you know, 216.34.244.xxx usually indicates it went through an/the anonymizer, so you could be addressing several people. And in brief reply to one that addressed me: No. :-) I am also "that karen woman."
Hey, Carol, way to go! Are you speaking to me?
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Bob F (Some General Thoughts)@165.121.48.94 said:
Appropriate Bumper Sticker - In the ideal world, schools would have all the money they needed to educate and the US Air Force would have to have a Bake Sale to buy a Bomber.Posting - When you post, toss out what you have to say but stop being defensive when someone disagrees - stop feeling the need to defend your point of view. Lets try and remember to keep our egos somewhat in check.
Pontification- It is great to hear everyone's experiences and points of view, it helps us to expand our awareness. However, we should remember the saying "Those who know, don't speak and those who speak, don't know." The condescension gets a little deep in here at times.
216.34.244.xxx - Keep posting anonymously – you are good at keeping everyone focused and off of the I, Me, My, Mine
Speaking of “I, Me, My, Mine” – that was the entire focus of the Olympics and also, last night’s political debate. Such Egos !!!!!
Just food for thought – Namaste’
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, Pat (((())))@192.76.82.65 said:
Silvia
Thanks for the recipe, too! I love the stuff, but have
had to buy it at Whole Foods cause I couldn't find a recipe.
Peggy
That's exactly what I said! "Say What????" That, acommpanied with, "A promise made is a promise kept." Goes right along with
"Read my Lips" from another Bush years ago...
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, carol ()@38.37.124.8 said:
hi Peggy - yes, it would seem there is a difference and that is where the problem might lay. i appreciate your comments on arrogance and it did answer a couple of questions for me.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, ( | ) ( | )@216.34.244.105 said:
ummm Peg musta forgot Carol wasn't speaking to her. or maybe she's baiting her again? It's one thing to be arrogant and consciously try to correct it. It's quite another to repeatedly remind (and demonstrate to) others how proud you are of your own arrogance.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Silvia (S@W)@24.113.35.216 said:
Hi Peggy : The recipe was for you. I wrote it in a rush before my class, but it's all there. Store bought Hummus is just not the same, plus you can customize the taste when you make it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Peggy (Say whut???)@209.86.52.162 said:
"I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place."
-- George W. Bush, First Presidential Debate
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.52.162 said:
Carol, I don't think that arrogance is automatically a bad thing either. But if we want people to think impartially about what we are saying, it is generally better not to alienate others with language that sounds condescending. And when several people have told us that our language comes across as condescending and we are in the communications business, we might want to reconsider how we say things. For example, if I had been an arrogant teacher, I would have been courting disaster! (I haven't always been this arrogant.)
Hmmm...I checked with the dick and Webster says that arrogance is an exaggerated opinion of your own worth. I guess that hints at one downside to arrogance: If your opinion is exaggerated, you might be out of touch with the truth. I wouldn't want that.
On the otherhand, since every human being is priceless, maybe we can't have too high an opinion of ourselves.
I wonder if there is a difference in having an exaggerated opinion of one's worth and in having an exaggerated contempt for the worth of others.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.52.162 said:
Thanks, Silvia! I'm about to eat the last of the "store bought" hummus and I remembered that you had posted a recipe that sounds really good. Didn't know that you would hear my appeal!
Now I've copied your recipe into my diary so I know that I won't lose it!
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Geoff (Chris)@203.10.72.215 said:
Thanks for sharing your experience, Chris - I'll write more next time I'm on ... cheers
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Geoff (Cathy)@203.10.72.215 said:
Just a quick visit while in th library ...
Cathy, yes, it took me a lot of 'time' and 'pain' to get to this place but I have reached only one vaguely firm conclusion - the only adults who are 'continuously' cheery are the true mystics and those who are out-of-their-minds. :)
I think a LOT of people adopt the Seinfeld view. Namely, 'In a world where so many people are deprived and unhappy, it doesn't seem like it would be decent to be cheerful'
Not an exact quote - it came from the episode where he's pretending to be 'dark & disturbed' so that George's new girlfriend won't find him funnier and thus more 'appealing'.
Anne, I love that quote - reminds me of something my father used to say:
'You can lead a man to wisdom but you can't make him strip naked and roll around in it.
One last thought before they boot me off this computer - 'appearances can be deceptive'
Namaste.
Have fun eveybody and don't take yourself or anyone else too seriously ... :)
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Silvia (S@W)@24.113.35.216 said:
Hummus 1 can of organic chick peas(garbonzo beans)drain the liquid, but leave just a touch of the liquid in
juice of two or 3 lemons
3 or 4 tablespoons of olive oil
1 or 2 garlic cloves
salt & cayenne pepper
We like to ad a small splah of balsamic vinager
parsley to your taste
blend in a food processor on high
heat the pita breads in the oven and enjoy
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, carol ()@38.37.124.36 said:
why is it that i see proud people, not arrogant? and what is the problem with a very human emotion called arrogance? i am arrogant, proud, foolish, you name it, i am as human as human gets. so what? let's talk about it?
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.50.196 said:
Dear Come Closer
Those magnifying mirrors will freak you out every time!
Dear Hadi
In the USA, a thousand million is a billion. I have been told that it is different in Britain -- that a million million is a billion there. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Dear Geoff,
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" was from the lips of Franklin Roosevelt, the President during most of WWII.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.50.196 said:
Gyte, do you have a recipe for hummus? I lost Silvia's.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.50.196 said:
Why said:
"peggy when you asked hadi what's wrong with this picture? obviously he is upset. then you say you didn't call him arrogant. your post said 'Cathy, it is my opinion that Hadi is in denial about the condescension that often comes across in his writing. He apparently just doesn't see why he gets called on the carpet so often for being "arrogant" It's all in our minds."
Why, you seem to have difficulty seeing the difference in stating something as true and in stating an opinion about what is true. Please notice the words "in my opinion. and the quotation marks around the word "arrogant." They are there for a reason.
The expression it's all in our minds was meant to convey the position that Hadi usually takes and which he did in this case so it was justified.
You have not been privy to all that Hadi has written or said to me. Some of the things that you say indicate that an acquaintanceship but not a friendship. Hadi has been and will continue to be my friend as long as both of us find it worthwhile. And I will probably piss him off from time to time -- just as the professor who wasn't even his friend did. I have told him how he often comes across -- not what he is.
As for the mirror metaphor, it is getting very old. Certainly, there is some truth to the metaphor. But it is just that -- a metaphor. A figure of speech. It has lost its effectiveness because it is overused and not always applicable. In this particular case, I have never had difficulty admitting to my own arrogance. I am arrogant. I don't need a mirror to see that. If you didn't notice this acknowledgement previously, then you are not reading carefully.
I agree with you about a couple of things. Hadi has made enormous contributions to this forum and he is a person of great depth. I also hope that he won't stay away permanently. But if he does, he would probably be the first to tell you that I did not make him leave.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, ? (?)@216.34.244.18 said:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Cathy (Already said it)@216.34.244.103 said:
A lot of it is word choice...recently you said to me "you
misunderstand so much"--you might have said the same thing w/o
making it personal--like "there is so much to understand etc..." The first
choice of expression is condescending, the second nonjudgemental
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Gyte Poon ()@167.64.48.15 said:
Dhoklas
Ingredients
1/2 cup dry green peas
juice of one lime
3/4 cup channa dal
1 tbsp. oil
1/4 cup water
1/2 tbsp. mustard seeds
3 green chillies
pinch of asafetida
1.5 cm ginger
1 tbsp. grated coconut 1 tbsp. salt
3/4 tbsp baking soda
chopped coriander leaves
PREPARATION: Soak dry peas and channa dal seperately in plenty of water overnight. The next morning, wash both well.
METHOD: Place peas, dal and water in a food processor or liquefier and blend until smooth. Add chillies, ginger, salt, soda and lime juice and blend until mixed throughly. Pour the mixture into a greased thali or shallow cake pan, making sure mixture does not come more than three quarters of the way upin the pan. Place the thali/cake pan in a steamer. Cover and steam for 20 minutes. Remove from steamer and set aside for 5 minutes. Insert a skewer to test for doneness. Cut into squares and arrange on a plate. Heat oil in a small saucepan and add mustard seeds. When seeds start to splutter, add the asafedita. Heat for another 2-3 seconds, pour over the cut dhoklas. Garnish each dhokla with grated cocunut and coriander leaves.
Yield: 16-18 squares.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, come closer (Aha!)@216.34.244.103 said:
Aha! You've come too close!
Now, LOOK INTO MY MIRROR!
Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhhhhhh. My eyes!!!!
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, haha (ha)@216.34.244.150 said:
this is like Star Wars but instead of swords of light, everyone has mirrors! hahahahahahahah hahahahahahaha
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Hi Kate! ( | )@216.34.244.103 said:
Kissing Hadi's ass again?
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, why (@so)@216.34.244.49 said:
For the life of me I don't know what all the fuss is about. I have looked at hadi's post to cathy over & over and i'm bewildered at what caused cathys reaction or peggys remarks. maybe my bifocals need replacing!. hadis post it seemed so harmless and gentle and the way he talked about Grace was very caring. I even felt his words on analisis seemed funny and laced with his English wit. speaking for myself i have always found hadi to be the most gifted contributer to this forum. he seems like a man of infinite depth. like the traditinal image of the wise old man, and i find it hard to believe he is so young! I hope he hasn't left, but i have told him myself in email that he should write a book and stop wasting his energy here. i've heard those same feelings expressed here. even though it would be a terrible loss for him to leave. i have been reading here and have posted very infrequently. excuse the anonimous guise. i do not wnt to become th latest victim of peggys ego. peggy when you asked hadi what's wrong with this picture? obviously he is upset. then you say you didn't call him arrogant. your post said "Cathy, it is my opinion that Hadi is in denial about the condescension that often comes across in his writing. He apparently just doesn't see why he gets called on the carpet so often for being "arrogant." It's all in our minds." i want to emphasise you said it's all in OUR minds. so you are including yourself in the carpeting of hadi as arrogant. i ask you peggy, what's wrong with this picture? nothing hadi has said in the past few months could compare with such a condescending remark as yours. when you accuse hadi of denial you maybe need to look more in that mirror yourself. and maybe you should remember as i do that most of the big arguments here tend tohappen when you are around. and hadi has stood by you so often. I got from hadis post whenhe said what is this really about? that maybe there is something we dont't know going on between you. you and your husband are relentless advisarys fo anyone who disagrees with you or rubs you up the wrong way so that is why i am posting anonymously. as always i think hadi hit the nail on the head when he said people feel inadequate with him. he is a genius, and i don't say that lightly. most of theproblems hdi has hd, like with that karen woman seem to be caused when the ego of those people runs out of answers and then they call him arrogant and talk about his aggressiveness. i found nothing aggressive inhis recent posts. he is only guilty of being too serioussome times, but surely that is why we have the geoffs of this world. we can't all be the same. sorry for the length but i think many of you give hadi a raw deal. in hadis words, i bow. i embrace.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, carol ()@38.37.124.186 said:
dear Chris - i pray for you and your grandmother thru this difficult time, Namasté.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, kereyra ()@132.254.130.23 said:
My husband gets "upset" sometimes. When he does, he gets this look on his face,
an inflection in his voice that indicate to all who know him well to keep away until the mood dies down.
When questioned, "Are you angry?" he'll angrily answer, "NO!" which is the final proof that he is.
Still, he cannot recognize that his face, his voice are dead giveaways that something's wrong.What's my point?
Sometimes, we have behaviour that is sooo deeply embedded, so much a part of us, that we fail to see it as others do.
Now, who's right? ??????? Who knows? I'm pretty certain my husband isn't, so is everyone who's close.
How far do we
need to step back from ourselves in order to perceive ourselves as others do?
There's a saying in Spanish, "Cuando el rio suena, es que agua lleva." When the river sounds, there is water in it.
My students write in their journals every morning. When one says something I find unpleasant or untrue, it makes me think for a while about my conduct. When three say the same thing, then, I
sit down and do some serious thinking about what I did to provoke their reaction, warranted or not...it's there and I had something to do with it. Sure, I'd love to write it off as collective hormonal reaction on their part,
but who would I be kidding.
**Note: The ongoing discussion got me thinking about this. Earlier today, I came across a journal entry that was hurtful. Synchronicity? It made me go, "Woah! What's really going on here? Is it me or is it my student?" Either way,
I had to act.
: )
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, carol ()@38.37.124.186 said:
we all suffer the burden of accretion, friends.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Chris V. (cvedeler@ix.netcom.com)@209.138.164.20 said:
Kereyra I really enjoyed your post about your experience driving. I don't think it is freaky, it sounds more like a peak experience.
Geoff I love your stuff mate. Your path to "enlightenment" is so fascinating to me. The "insane" scare the hell out of us, but they may just be able to teach us some very valuable lessons. I was sitting in traffic yesterday and a homeless woman sitting by herself at a bus stop was screaming obscenities to the world. I looked into her eyes and it scared me. I was very uncomfortable sitting there and hoped that the light would turn green so I could get away. I then stopped my judgments for a moment and closed my eyes. I wished her peace and love. She screamed more obscenities. I recognized however that I don't need to fear that part of myself that wants to scream obscenities to the world. This world of egos and bodies can be a hell of a crazy place. She was one of the few ones sane enough to scream out.
Silvia Good to see you. Great questions. The ego is very insecure, and so when we encounter someone that does not support what our ego's believe we attack. That is why we compulsively try and change other peoples minds. In my experience you can't take your ego with you far on a spiritual journey. At some point you have to let it go. I'm not there yet myself but I recognize this fact. Also, I think the question "Why did we forget how to love one another?" is a great one. Something I've been working on myself lately. I recognize that all the love I can experience comes from within me and not outside of me. I also recognize that the state of Love is the Natural state and when I don't feel it it is because I have put up obstacles. The secret to finding that loving place is not to try and change what is happening outside of myself, but to find the walls that I have built inside to keep from recognizing Love.
I'm going through a very difficult time at the moment. My grandmother is dieing and I am being put into a position of making some very difficult chooses. My mother is in Europe and so she may not make it back in time. I feel kind of alone with the choices I am facing. I am in awe however how much love I feel coming from family all over. It is humbling when looking right into the face of death, how trivial so much of what I thought was important seems to be now. The only things that are important in this life are our relationships with others and our "relationship" with our own divinity. It is good to be reminded of this fact as we let loved ones go.
Thank you for listening. The discussion between Hadi, Cathy, and Peggy is exactly as it should be. The choice for peace and love must come from within and there is a lesson here for all of us. I wish all of you peace and light.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.55.99 said:
Hadi, sweetheart...You misunderstood my post. I never said that you are arrogant. I said that in my opinion, you often come across that way and that you are in denial about that. Look at the original text and see for yourself.
You don't seem to take responsibility for the words that you choose. It surprises me that such a gifted writer as you remains blind to the effect that some of your word choices have.
I do think that many people are unaware of how agressive they sound. I suspect that that may apply to both you and me. I thought that I was being assertive. If I came across as aggressive, then maybe I need to reexamine how I said things. Maybe you do too.
I don't take your words about marriage and relationships to be advice to me about my marriage. I don't see where I offered you advice about your relationship but maybe you will point it out. Both you and I seem to enjoy our primary relationships as they are. We are both fortunate.
"I am not sitting here casting judgements about you...I shall respectfully fuck off, and leave you with that inflated reflection to spit at."
What's wrong with this picture?
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Joanne Rose (joanne1976@hotmail.com)@203.101.52.85 said:
Dear Deepak Chopra
I greet you with my very best and warmest wishes!
I am writing in the hope that you may read this.
I want to thank you endlessly for your wonderful books.
My brother introduced me to your books, by thoughtfully
sending me The Seven Spiritual Laws Of Success for my 24th Birthday.
I moved to the USA in 1999 from Australia.
I work as an actress/model.
In March 2000 I had a near death experience which changed my life forever.
I developed a psychic ability through the experience. Your books have helped
me tremendously and I shall be forever grateful to you for your words
throughout the pages of your books.
I hope that some day I will have the honor of meeting you in person.
I wanted to let you know that I credited you on my website.
http://m3.easyspace.com/joannerose/open.htm
http://www.velvetwebdesign.com/rose/index.html
With love and eternal thanks for so much!
Joanne Rose
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Silvia (S@W)@24.113.35.216 said:
Here are some thoughts that were running through my mind as I read Nothing is right, Nothing is wrong
Generally people take things personally most of the time
I like Carly Simon's song
Why is it that nomatter who is at the forum, new friends or old friends it always ends up the same
Why can't we break free instead of being prisoners of the intellect?
Why don't people allow other people to have opinions without compulsively trying to change their minds?
Why don't people see how minds grow opinions change
Why are there religions when there is love?
Why did we forget how to love one another
Why do elephants care so much about the members of their group and humans don't?
How come we are not as creative as we could be?
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, Tommye (tommye@arkansas.net)@216.152.2.28 said:
The Formula of Love
At least once each night before you fall asleep, and again once each day
- preferably when you awaken in the morning and have not yet encountered the
strain of your day's work - repeat either or both of these thoughts:
The proper name for God in man is LOVE!
and
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy
soul, and with all thy mind. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
At any time during the day when you encounter stress or strain, determine
the exact cause of your moment of grief and (inserting the word or phrase
that best signifies it in the blank space) repeat this thought so that the
formula of love can work for you:
I love __________________________ as I do myself!
>From The Magic Power of Your Mind by Walter M. Germain, 1955.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, WHATEVER (tommye@arkansas.net)@216.152.2.28 said:
"Generally speaking, all the major religions of the world emphasize the
importance of the practice of love, compassion, and tolerance. This is
particularly the case in all the traditions of Buddhism, including the
Theravada, Mahayana, and Tantrayana (the esoteric tradition of Buddhism).
They all state that compassion and love are the foundation of all the
spiritual paths.
"In order to enhance one's development of compassion and cultivate the
potential for compassion and love inherent within oneself, what is crucial is
to counteract their opposing forces. It is in this context that the practice
of patience or tolerance becomes very important, because only through
patience is one able to overcome the obstacles to compassion."-- His Holiness
the Dalai, from 'Healing Anger',
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@64.12.104.179 said:
Hadi Just wondering what you think your last post "reflects" about you--since apparently when I have a problem with you, it's just my own weakness, I guess you having a problem now with me/and or Peggy would then be a reflection of some weakness of yours?
Anyway, I had just come back to say that I have been noticing the quiet ones seem to have the right idea, and probably based on their level of serenity... Geoff, you are one that seems continuously jovial and one not to get involved in these heated exchanges or even the less heated but still "trying to prove a point" ones :-) I loved your Cutting Grass poem! So, I think it best I disengage from all this for now...perhaps try to walk the talk a bit more erectly :-) Of course, I had to announce that I was disengaging...sigh :-)
Namaste all--that means you too, Hadi ;-)...it's never too late
Cathy
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hahaha ( | )@216.34.244.105 said:
You all sound like a bunch of whining babies only
instead of Oh yeah and nya nya, you are conditioned to say mirror this and
projection that. Do you really think that's what
Chopra's stuff is about???!!!
Cathy, was right in the first place.
Hadi your posts prove you need to master simple
respect for other before thinking about
mastering all that's been revealed to you.
I wonder how far Grace could go without you in tow.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, carol (wow! such divine passion)@38.37.124.76 said:
Tonight, I look at you and see God....
Namasté, Forum Friends
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net uk.)@212.67.99.141 said:
Sorry Cathy, too late.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@0netel.net.uk)@212.67.99.141 said:
I haven't taken offence, Cathy. You have. That is projection.
Peggy: What's eating you? Who's voice are you hearing? Surely I know if I'm being aggressive or not, don't I? Denial! Okay. As you like... I do think that when people feel inadequate their egos tend to think the person causing the inadequacy is "arrogant". Name throwing, labelling and just generally being aggressive are simply ways to subvert that which makes them feel inadequate. I am sorry that is how I make you and Cathy feel. In my dictionary someone who is arrogant is "one who shows an exagerated opinion of one's own importance." if you think that is what I am doing, I am saddened by it. I am not ungrateful to Cathy, she misunderstood what I said and then said I had hinted at things which I had not. Look at the original text and see for yourself. Sorry for trying to get the facts right. Otherwise, if this has something to do with something else, be honest about that and speak to me about it. Stop projecting what you are feeling. I am not sitting here casting judgements about you or giving you unwanted advice about your marriage!
Please have some respect and understand I have not asked for any advice or help in my relationship and just because I was oipen enough to speak candidly about it doesn't give you a license to judge me by it. Since it isn't my objective to show you how important I am, I shall respectfully fuck off, and leave you with that inflated reflection to spit at.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@152.163.207.199 said:
Hadi Never one to not admit when I overreact, I am posting to say that I did :-) I just reread your original posts in response to mine, and they weren't all that bad ;-0 You still seem to think you need to explain things to me, and to that most of what I say needs correction...but the tone wasn't as bad as I had originally thought...still, I was not the only one to get the impression I did--TO did also...also when I say philosophy, I am talking about the big Life questions and what we make of them--not the Philosophy of college courses--never took any of that. Thomas Hora's stuff is not esoteric mumbo jumbo--it's a way of perceiving life from a spiritual standpoint based on a lot of Zen and christian "wisdom"--actually Polly Berends is more my speed--though her stuff is essentially the same as his..."by their fruits you shall know them"...I think their ideas are much in alignment w/Deepak's and CWG....though their are some differences, I'm sure it's a valid path.
I apologize for my hasty response--and while the degree of reaction was unwarranted, the content remains...
Cathy
Terry-- Thanks :-)
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Enough about you! ()@216.34.244.18 said:
The reason I post anonymously is because I don't want you to know how bad I am.
Maybe you can accept my shadow side but I can't. I am afraid of being responsible for my anger. That makes me a coward. So what?
I want attention and this is one way to get it. Deal with it.
I might add that my dick is unusually little.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@64.12.104.174 said:
HadiSweetheart, you say, eh? Too late for sweet talk ;-)
I just went out to walk my dog (look in the mirror) and all I saw was someone asserting herself for what felt like disregard of genuinely offered ideas (which is something I see as showing respect to one's self and the other)...now, I know Buddha wouldn't have reacted thus--there's a great story about him being spat upon by someone once and not getting upset--he said something like I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you ...well not exactly, but it meant the same thing, if I remember correctly? :-)The point I think was not about everything that one says, but more words that have some*negative* thought behind them. My thoughts offered were genuinely meant to be helpful or of no offense, despite what you may have preceived them to be. So your response, as in our previous "meetings" seemed condescending and irritated with me as some foolish person who just doesn't get it. I grant you that enlightened I am not...but I am at least aware of a good bit. So assertiveness vs the unshakable calm of Buddha was my reaction...but then I have never claimed to have found what he and Jesus sought...(yes, this is implying that I have my doubts if you really found what those two masters found--maybe you experienced it for a time, but it seems to not have been fully realized, or I doubt you and I would even be having this conversation?? I do not not mean to slight what you may know about Reality...but sometimes it just doesn't translate into "interactions"--for me, at least :-))
Cathy
I appreciate the mirror analogy, but I don't think every interaction is about projection...Buddha did not loathe the man who spit on him--it wasn't his anger being projected into this action. So my feeling you are a bit arrogant at times, isn't necessarily about any feelings of insecurity I might have (which, I don't think I am insecure about philosophical or other matters--confused sometimes, appreciative of other's experiences, but pretty sure of myself and that I'm on the right track and getting there...)
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Anne O'Nymous ()@203.12.152.23 said:
'If my logic is twelve then my life will be the twelveless.'
On Monday, October 2, 2000, kereyra ()@148.223.116.22 said:
Hmmmmm....seems like several of us have coincided in time here!
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.48.19 said:
Cathy, it is my opinion that Hadi is in denial about the condescension that often comes across in his writing. He apparently just doesn't see why he gets called on the carpet so often for being "arrogant." It's all in our minds.
The good times with him are worth the trouble though.
It could be worse! He could be smug and aware that he's smug and just not care. But that is a description of me, not of him, I think.
TO, how do you know that those who claim that they know, dont?
:-)
Hadi, your comment about the binding contract is valid. I would say that the dissolution of the contract provides for fairness to both sides. But that would be a lie.
I admire your tenacity in your relationship. There would have been times that I might have opted out except for the hassle. I'm glad that the contract was there to make me think twice. But I am probably more impulsive than you.
There's only one Dave and I don't think that I would ever want to be married to anyone else. I'm just not that easy to live with.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Geoff (link)@203.12.152.23 said:
For an interesting perspective on recent topics -
click here
On Monday, October 2, 2000, kereyra ()@148.223.116.22 said:
I couldn't bear to go to school today. I think some shrimp got into the seafood plate I had yesterday, causing my allergy to flare up, enough to make me feel too miserable to go to class, but not enough to stop me from feeling guilty. Wow! Such great thoughts in the room these past few days.
Hadi's turning point in front of the mirror and Peggy's on the balcony brought me back to a personal turning point, but I hesitate to call it a Unity experience. A couple of years ago, I was driving down a country road with an old friend. I'd never been "interested" in all the spiritual, new-age, philosphical conundrums that were so much the rage, and I viewed them as just so much more that people invent to keep sane. Anyway, my friend had briefly mentioned his involvement in some energy-thing he was studying, but since I showed no interest, he changed the subject.
Backtracking a bit, and getting on with the story, we were driving down this country road. It's one of the most majestic sceneries I've seen, beautiful, craggy mountains; soft, rolling hills; streams and waterfalls; soft, perfumed air; zillions of dragonflies; and only the sound of life in all its purity, in its truest, uncontaminated essence. It's a much untravelled road, having lost its traffic to a super highway.
After about an hour of driving, my friend stopped right in the middle of the road. The sky was almost cloudless, but the few small clouds that were there covered the sun at almost the same time we stopped. He got out of the car, walked a few meters in front of it, held his arms up to the sky with this expression of total rapture. At that moment, the clouds moved and he was engulfed in a spot of light. When I looked up, the clouds had moved away and everything was light.
I don't know how to express what happened to me. I understand that the sight of my friend triggered it. It was an incredible feeling, that frightened me at first because I felt myself "sinking." I instantly lost all track of reality, I was gone. I felt myself expand to see my friend from above, to see the streams from above and see the water falling down on me, next to stones at the bottom of the pool.
The whole thing was over in no time. Of the innumerable things I felt and saw, what stands out in my mind, even now, is seeing my friend standing there and the thought that came into my mind at that moment, "he's calling the universe down to him."
I know this is freaky...I still cannot explain it well enough to transmit what happened, but for me it was a turning point. Since then, I've been more open to the universe and its callings, its ways and less critical of the things people say.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Geoff (216.34.244.106)@203.12.152.23 said:
216.34.244.106
You're quite correct. The only things on this page are words. Words are completely neutral. What you 'make' of them is a reflection of where you're at. Another person's habit is only 'annoying' if you choose to be annoyed. If you want a real challenge try imagining what it would take to get to a 'place' where it doesn't annoy you or a place where you can 'see' where they are 'coming from' - whether you 'agree' with them or not. Just out of curiousity, why would you return time-and-again to aplace that is full of cliches? No pun intended and thanks for sharing.
Namaste.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.48.19 said:
Thanks, Carol and TO. Then all of my soap boxes have not been in vain.
Terry, I didn't know about your mother. That must have been extremely painful. It must also be hard to wonder if prozac would have made a difference. It doesn't help everyone.
My dad died about the time that prozac was coming into wide usage. I wish that he had been able to experience a life without "the dark night of the soul."
Hadi, I don't know that I agree with you that mysticism is subjective science. That seems like an oxymoron to me. But I do think that it is through what we call mysticism that we can, at this point in history, have insight into what I also think of as another demension. In time, I think that what appears "supernatural" now will be explainable by objective science. Mystical insights will be verifiable but no less stunning.
"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." -- Dennis Miller
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net uk.)@212.67.97.126 said:
Cathy, calm down sweetheart. Don't be so defensive. Your misunderstanding me is not a criticism. It's just a misunderstanding. I'm not being prickly, I'm just allowing you to rehear what I actually meant. Clarifying.
Namaste'.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Geoff (Hadi)@203.12.152.23 said:
Yes, I loved the fireworks too ... thought the way my mind works I kept thinking how many homeless or starving kiddies could be helped with the money the fireworks cost. Then again, the military budget of the nations of the world would feed all those in poverty probably ten times over.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Geoff (Cathy)@203.12.152.23 said:
Cathy
You asked what the view is like ... well, it varies ... a lot ... :)
I don't know if you've read the poems at my site but a couple of my favourites attempt to describe the 'view' on a 'good' day ... if you'd told me just 20 months ago that I'd be writing poetry and reading authors like Deepak or Neale Walsch or James Twyman or the Dalai Lama ... I would have said you need you head examined. :)
Two of my 'favourite' poems are -
Poem written while mowing the lawn
My favourite psychosis
Of course on a really 'good' day, words are totally inadequate vehicles to describe the experience ... :)
Enjoy.
[
[
[
[
[
BTW, to TO ...
The interesting thing about my 'awakening' was that I really didn't think I was 'seeking' :) I was 'convinced' there was NOTHING to find and that atheism was the only logical way to go. :)
And to this day, how I got from 'there' to 'here' is a profound mystery - I'm awfully grateful but I think my head is still spinning ...
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net uk.)@212.67.97.126 said:
Peggy: As I am sure you are aware, a contract tends to be "binding".
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Geoff (All)@203.12.152.23 said:
Hi All,
Just a quick observation from the country that is now basking in the afterglow of "Olympic fever" ... actually I heard on the news one of the athletes quite matter-of-factly saying she expected they would all get 'depressed' now that it's over and then they would have to get over that. Must be rough getting 'high' only once every four years.
Anyways ... it was hard to 'escape' the saturation coverage of the event and in the end my main impression is that people are so starved of anything which 'brings us all together' that they will clutch at anything. Now if we could just make the basis of that 'coming together' somethin a little more substantial or meaningful than running round in circles - not that I'm opposed to running or walking round in circles per se - I once spent a couple of hours walking round the tennis court in the psych ward last year in a state of utter euphoric bliss but that's me. :)
Any suggestions for a 'spiritual olympics' ?? Maybe the high jump for the person who can raise their consciouness the highest in one 'leap' (might be difficult to 'measure') or possibly synchronised thinking. :)
Peggy, was that the president who said 'we have nothing to fear but fear itself' ??
:)
Namaste.
Oh, by the way, speaking of politicians and enlightenment ... I read an interesting interview with Robert Thurman the other day where his 'vision' would see an
'executive has been a reincarnated boddhisattva for at least ten lifetimes. Now in the modern system of course you're not likely to have that.'
{A boddhisattva is an enlightened being who forsakes 'nirvana' to return to this realm of existence to liberate other beings. Or at least that's my 'understanding' of the expression - I was blown away the first time I encountered the word and what it means!}
Click here to read the interview.
Oh, rather belatedly, Peggy - here is a direct link to that CNN site you reported difficulty getting onto -
click here.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Cathy (Catcta@aol.com)@64.12.104.48 said:
HadiI shoulda known better--you are quick to make observations about others (me) and what they understand, but anytime someone else has an observation--especially one offered very humbly (twice I said that this was just my take and that it could well be wrong) about you...look out! I apologize that you took offense at my thoughts...those mirrors you so love to mention--do you ever look in them, or do you just hold them up for others who haven't had the amazing travels and learning that you have had?
Cathy--who's going to a mirror right now to see what looks back at me--probably a volcano ;-)
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net.uk)@212.67.104.213 said:
Ouch! Hi, {{Carol}}. If you want to dance, just dance.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net uk.)@212.67.104.213 said:
Geoff: Best fireworks I've ever seen! Thanks to all "down under".
On Monday, October 2, 2000, carol ()@38.37.124.231 said:
sorry, Hadi, we were posting at the same time, i didn't mean to step on your lines.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net.uk)@212.67.104.213 said:
Is a billion in the USA a hundred million? Here in the Britain a billion is defined as a thousand million.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, carol ()@38.37.124.231 said:
thank you, Hadi & Peggy, for sharing your perfect moments in time with us.and yes, Peggy, your posts on depression has helped me to understand a bit more and your link on Prozac helped me to understand why my sister-in-law ended her life under it's influence. it also helped me to realize that she would have probably done it anyway.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net uk.)@212.67.104.213 said:
Patricia, thank you for paying attention.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net uk.)@212.67.104.213 said:
I think one of the ideas you need to drop, is that any of this stuff is philosophy. It is not. I can see that Thomas Hora can make it sound as if it is, but it is not. Philosophy deals with abstract ideas and concepts. It makes toys of them and toys with them. But it never applies them. Never tests them. "if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a noise?" Stupid nonsense.
Mysticism is a science. It is talking about reality. A reality which exists just outside of normal consciousness, beyond the five senses, but a reality which can be "experienced" and "realised".
You said Thomas Hora "…talked of God being spirit and therefore to know Him was a spiritual happening, a realisation vs an experience...and so the more involved in experience we become, the harder it becomes to transcend it..."
Perhaps you haven’t expressed this perfectly, but it doesn’t seem right to me. You cannot realise anything without experience. I always use the analogy of water and getting wet to demonstrate this. No amount of philosophising, intellectualising or reading about getting wet will actually give you the experience.
Mysticism is this. It describes a reality which can be achieved through a process and by use of certain techniques.
Ordinary science is objective. That is, the observer observes an object which is "outside" and separate. It measures, quantifies, tests and through these processes the observer encounters certain truths. Often he draws conclusions and does so too soon.
With Mysticism you have a subjective science. The observer and the observed are one and the same. We are looking inwards, beyond the skin and beyond that which can be seen objectively by any other observer. That is what makes it so subjective. Essentially, however, we are made up of the same stuff. Made in the same way. Down to the minutiae, the building blocks are identical. This is what is meant by we are "one". Not that we are one being, but that we are like cells in a body, we are a species, we are conscious, we feed, we fight, we procreate. We laugh, we cry, we dance, we sing, we love. So when we go inside and observe more deeply about ourselves, truthfully, without projecting a conclusion, without limiting our research, we ultimately learn about every "one".
Neither is mysticism or spirituality a religion. Religion says ours is right yours is wrong. Religion says this is how it is because it is written in a book and that book is the word of god. Religion and theology tend to already have conclusions written in stone. Conclusions that cannot be questioned, cannot be tested, cannot be proved, only accepted. This is the worst kind of hypnosis. From childhood you are told stuff about God, life, politics, race. You are told by authority that it is so, and if you want proof, the churches, the religions, they will tell you ‘look, the whole nation believes. Are you so special that you are right and the nation is wrong? How could they all be wrong?’ And the beat goes on as our agent provocateur would say. Religion has already decided, and not only has it decided for itself, but it has decided for you too.
Mysticism and Spirituality says "meditate", "practice", "question", never believe you have discovered it all. Keep moving. "Running water never goes stale".
So understand, Mysticism and Spirituality are progressive sciences of the mind, of the soul, of the Self and of inner reality. Philosophy is abstract, unreal, fatuous and serves non but the ego. But don’t just get caught up in the words. They are pretty, they are moving, but there is much more behind them. Most importantly there is instruction on "how".
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Hadi (01@onetel.net uk.)@212.67.104.213 said:
Thanks Cathy for the time you have taken to think of me. I do think you misunderstood me. I have at no stage hinted that I am looking for something else other than Grace. I said there are things I need to do and Grace perhaps gets in the way. I have always tried to include her in the journey, but I sometimes think I might achieve more without her in tow. I have a higher calling and she tends to compete with that. She is even a little jealous of the time I spend at the Forum. However, I am not in search of something else, I am not even in search. I just have been called to do certain things and I need a lot of slack to achieve them, and that I am not getting or allowing myself.
I also did not say I had to ‘learn to be giving’. I said I needed to learn to give "proper attention" to people. Very different thing. I have always been giving since that day I looked in the mirror. In fact, I was giving before, I just didn’t mean it. When I first got together with Grace I told her I loved her after just a week or two. This kind of freaked her out. It freaked her out because she knew I meant it and she could see that I wasn’t afraid of saying it. I had come to understand it and give it with ease and sincerity and without "needing" it back. This was so alien to her. You didn't tell someone you loved them unless you were sure. Saying I love you was surrender. It was especially disturbing to hear it from someone she had had a crush on from afar for so long. ;) It took her a week or so longer to melt and let down her own barriers and she has never stopped saying those words back to me. It was like a treat for her to be able to say them. "I love you". And it's always a joy to hear, don't you think?
I’ve stayed out of analysis for my entire life and I’d like to keep it that way. Please don’t rush to draw conclusions about me or my relationship with Grace based on a couple of paragraphs roughly sketching twenty six years of my life. I do appreciate the intention and the thought but please, enough about me.
We were talking about "relationships" and their purpose. Their function in knowing God. Chris asked me to relate it in terms of Grace and I did. I said I thought the purpose of all relationships is to help us know our Self. I think this extends beyond the one to one romantic relationship to those we have with everyone. Our parents, our friends, our pets. I think our relationship with nature reflects a great deal about our Self. Look at the way we treat the environment and the state of nature. Then look at the state of humanity. It is by "seeing" in this way that we understand krishnamurti's sentiments that "All life is relationship".
Mirrors.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Amber (PrncessLeeAnn@aol.com)@205.146.44.54 said:
I was wondering if anyone knew of any claims against Ayurveda therapies. I need the information for a paper I am working on and I can't seem to find anything. Any help anyone can provide would be wonderful. Thanks!!!
On Monday, October 2, 2000, to ( | )@216.34.244.106 said:
What the hell are you rambling on about? All I hear is cliche's and new age babble-speak.
And that annoying habit of putting quotes around every word is so trite. Yes we get it by now that "I" and "we" and just about
everything you can think of has several meanings.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.228 said:
Back to "reality". Two (2) BILLION dollars
spent on this election.Reminds me of the
100 million that went up in smoke in that one
missle test.
And "we" can't supply the kind
of treatment folks need these days, even to the
ones who want it.
Also reminds me of the time I was trying to set
up a "school" some years back. The Budget for
one year was 1/4 of one-percent (.0l) of the
salary for one year of a guy I approached.
Ahhhhhhhhhh Soooooooooooooooooooooooo! (L)
On Monday, October 2, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.228 said:
Another "also", "BTW".......
YES...Pegasus, it is "cumulative". I
envy Bob F and his two hours a day.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.228 said:
In one "way" or another, "we've" all had (or are
having) our "Dark Night of the Soul", after
which the "Light" has shown through."We" were
told long ago "seek, and ye will find", and I'm
reminded of the many "ways" just the people here
have "awakened". Geoff especially.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.228 said:
I might add Pegasus that your "words"
(spirit) will be passed on immediately. Part of
this "journey" in helping others is that the
spiritual path as we talk about it here is so
foreign to our cultural conditioning that many
who I've approached with it think it's "New Age"
or "cultish". More societal crap.The
current success I'm having is that others are
trying it out, and that's important, to know that
others are doing it too.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.228 said:
Speaking of that, I would encourage anyone having
emotional problems to start going to
"Emotions Anonymous" meetings.
On Monday, October 2, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.228 said:
As a RN my sister was convinced that science, and
the "professionals" knew what her problem was and
"bought into" their expertise. Of course there
wasn't any doubt about the depression she was
going through (we all did) with our mother's suicide.
Anyone contemplating that avenue---DON'T DO IT!
On Monday, October 2, 2000, to (@)@216.236.6.228 said:
Namaste'Sweet-one (Pegasus), thank you
soooooooooo much.
Cathy, I "caught" the
same inferences, and it is troubling to the
individual that is "aware"----------the other
person's "needs", and fear of the outcome for
them if you "leave". Of course one can "leave" in
other ways than physical.
Pegasus, you've
helped me understand a lot about mental health and
why "we're" handling it the way we are.
The topic
is sooooooooo vast.
First of all let me clear
up something. I'll go along with the "disease"
concept of alcoholism because it's helped a lot of
people handle the stigma, and the AMA says it is.
It definitely is a dis-ease, and one that
centers in the MIND.
I've been involved with
"mental health" for a loooooooooooooong time,
beginning with my mother, who ultimately
committed suicide.
My sister went through the
"chairs" of diagnosis', ultimately ending up on
one of the most toxic drugs they administer these
days. Her "journey" began 30 years ago and my
biggest sadness about her passing is that she
wouldn't let me help a long time ago, as during
the time she lived with me she had stopped all
the medication pertaining to her "mental" condition.
Of course during the last two months she needed the
pain medication.
I've mentioned that I worked
for a psychologist for a period of time, and from
that I determinded that at any given time "I"
could have been diagnosed with quite a few of
the classifications------even after I'd quit
drinking.
Because of my "experience", I
realized that it was up to "me" to take charge of
what was going on in my head; what amounts to
destroying the "ego".
I've also mentioned that
it's a blessing and a curse what science has
achieved in that area due to the immensity of
the problem. "We've" done it to "our-selves".
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Cathy (catcta@aol.com)@64.12.104.183 said:
Peggy Thanks for sharing your balcony experience--pretty cool! Did it change much about how you are, what you think, or was it more of a confirmation of ideas you'd had?
Hadi I was contemplating your relationship story--I think it's great that you grew out of the conditioning you received as a child! I have a couple of comments/thoughts about some stuff you said that I offer without any implication that I have any true perspective on your situation :-) In other words, don't take any offense if none of this applies!
The biggest thing that struck me about Grace is that I used to be her--ha! Well, remember I said I was needy...and while I think her desire for attention might be different than what I was looking for (you mentioned her getting lonely easily and liking chit chat--which sounds like she likes to be "entertained"--my needs were more about wanting to be admired for my fine character ;-))...it boils down to the same thing, I think--having expectations of our loved one to fulfill certain requirements for us to be happy in the relationship. You mentioned that you had needed to learn to be giving in a relationship so Grace was a perfect match...but--and I may be completely wrong here...at the end, you sounded as if maybe you were now ready for something else...that you have some dreams of a way of being in the world that you're not sure Grace will embrace?? This is what you said:
It has also been hard for me because I have wanted to go to the cave, to the mountain and to experience greater solitude and go deeper into my Self. Like Buddha to go off into the world. To Master some of what has been revealed to me. In this regard I sometimes feel that Grace gets in the way. She is still as demanding as ever even though I am now also trying to give my attention to God. I have had plenty of frustration in this regard, but I am advanced enough to recognise that only I limit me. She is not responsible. She is just "being" Grace. I also think of these frustrations as learning exercises. Part of the journey. For one thing there’s the adage "wherever you go, there you are". And I also have to remind myself that I have already experienced what Buddha and Jesus went searching for. So that isn’t really my problem. The problem is going out there and using it, teaching it, becoming IT. Perhaps it’s just a fear of success, perhaps of failure, which holds me back. But deep down I feel that if I go out and try to fulfil my destiny my attention will be elsewhere and it will be entirely up to Grace to hold on. And she may choose not to.
The part about trying to give your attention to God and about if you followed your dream your attention would be elsewhere than on Grace I think are significant. Polly Berends calls what you talk about going out there, using it etc...(though not really teaching it) "living prayer" or exercising your spiritual awareness---and really this is what we "should"/could do everyday no matter what our circumstance...the whole "needing" or desiring or demanding or expecting of certain things in a relationship is an unnecessary--albeit widely believed-- element I think. Not to say that I don't do it ;-) I know this sounds rather impractical, perhaps...I'm trying to express what has happened for me...and I recognize that it may not be what others are about in this life...but for me, I try to completely let my husband be who he is w/o judgment. If he compliments me, criticizes me, notices me or not, I try to not take it personally as an individual self. Thomas Hora says "There is no interaction anywhere, only omniaction everywhere--which is the notion behind my perspective. I think this goes along with the idea of us all being ONE and the Polly Berends quote I gave before about "Love is not the coming together of self and other..." It's not a very romantic notion that we are just two expressions of God in close proximity :-) Vs being selves who do and mean so much for each other...
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are not here to meet anyone's needs, nor they you. Certainly consideration of others is a fine thing...but ideally we rely on God to be buoyed up (to meet our needs) and are then free to be loving together...you quoted to me not that long ago, the thing about "If you love something set it free..." to me that setting free can be understood to be free from expectation, free from meeting my "needs"...
Well, it is late...I'm not sure how much sense I've made per usual :-) But I've spent too much time typing to delete this! Ha! I reiterate that I am in no way trying to imply that I know anything really about what you need to do etc...just sharing things that struck me from where I sit (as this expression of God over here learning her own lessons, making her own discoveries ;-))
Namaste!
Cathy
On Monday, October 2, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.48.157 said:
I wish you success in overcoming your compulsion to read it. You will have several more chances!!!
:-)
On Sunday, October 1, 2000, Not the balcony story again!!! ()@216.34.244.105 said:
and the beat goes on...Ahhhhhhhh....soooooooooo....
On Sunday, October 1, 2000, Peggy ((also for TO))@209.86.55.58 said:
Prozac does not in any way interfere with a mystical experience. The depressive state which often requires prozac or another anti-depressant does interfere. The prozac has no known mental affect on a person who does not have depression. It is not "the happy pill" that some would have you think.
In that way I think that depression may differ from schzophrenia and bi-polar disorder.
I have begun to think of depression as a sub-level of reality. Keep in mind that feelings of sadness or hopelessness are only one symptom out of many. And I am not talking about "feeling down" or having the blues.
Terry, do you ever listen and absorb what I write about depression or do you dismiss it, forget it, disagree or what? I am curious. (You are not the only one who responds this way.) I believe what you say about the disease which you have but sometimes I think that you don't extend to me the same courtesy.
I have had this disease for at least forty years. Most of that time prozac was not available so I have seen the difference it can make in some lives.
Love you anyway, bud!
I would also like to know if there is anyone "out there" that I have helped to understand depression better from my soapbox through the years. A desire to help others through information is the reason that I post about it.
On Sunday, October 1, 2000, Peggy (For Terry and Co.)@209.86.55.58 said:
One method that can be used for meditation. It is not the only way:
1. Set a timer so that the mind is released from questions about how much time has elapsed. I set the timer for thirty minutes. I don't recommend that amount of time in the beginning. Consider starting with ten to twenty minutes two or three times a day.
2. Take every precaution not to be interrupted. If someone else is in the house, I let them know that I will be meditating. I disconnect the phone and remove myself from potentially high traffic areas. I do not listen to music or rhythms as an aid. They are relaxing but occupy too much of the brain.
3. Get into a comfortable position. Usually for me this is with my feet at least slightly supported but not in a fully reclining position. I let my arms rest at my side or supported on the armrests of a chair.
4. Take one or two deep breaths through the nose, making certain to exhale normally. Take a few seconds for a mental muscular inventory to relax any tense muscles. I let my jaw go slack.
5. Begin to breath gently, smoothly and regularly through the nose. Focus attention on the breathing itself at the beginning.
6. When thoughts distract, gently push them aside and refocus on the breathing. Do not entertain feelings of frustration at these thoughts as they come.
7. Allow whatever happens to happen without judging it as a good meditation or a bad meditation.
8. When the timer goes off or when the time is right, continue to keep the eyes closed for a moment and gradually release yourself from the meditative state.
9. Practice this technique twice a day on a regular basis. There does seem to be a cumulative effect.
10. It is "okay" to use this technique for centering for shorter periods of time even when much is going on around you. I've used it in the ER of a hospital (where I think it once actually kept me breathing) and just before testifying in court. I've also used it when waiting in line. But I don't let these times "count" for the regular twice a day meditations.
On Sunday, October 1, 2000, Peggy ()@209.86.54.27 said:
(Some of you may want to scroll if you've heard about my balcony experience before.)
About twenty years ago, I stood in daylight on the balcony of my apartment. I don't know of anything that precipitated this event. I was listening to a little opera.
Suddenly, I felt that my self was expanding to encompass everything and that everything was embracing me. If you ever watched the shift to warp speed on the old Star Trek, that is a little what it felt like. I was aware that I was also still a physical being standing on a balcony, but that seemed to be irrelevant. I had a profound sense of just being and being all at the same time.
I had feelings about my earthbound self. The events of my life seemed very dear and I had tender, almost sentimental, feelings. But it was the kind of tenderness that you might feel in looking back at a childhood toy and remembering the magic that is no longer there. I felt that my earthbound life was basically inconsequential.
I was seeing what was before my physical eyes but everything seemed bathed in a sort of rose gold light and yet the colors were intense.
My feelings were wildly euphoric. I've had synthetic heroin before and the euphoria from that drug did not begin to approach what I felt.
Then I seemed to sense that my awareness was coming from from an "eye in the sky." I knew that if I closed that eye, I would cease to exist and that would be perfection...completion.
At that point my husband touched me on the arm and it was over. He had come to the balcony because he had heard me crying loudly. I had no idea that I was crying at all.
Please understand that these words are totally inadequate in conveying what I was feeling. I also do not believe that anyone else is in a position of judging the intensity. I know only that it was short-lived -- a matter of minutes.
Incidentally, the piece that I was listening to when the experience began was M'Appari. I later looked up an English translation and it does refer to a vision.
I have not returned to that "place." Three years ago, I experienced some of the euphoria and golden light, but only for a few seconds. That occurred as I awoke from a nap. I thought there was a golden glowing infant on my lap.
I knew only enough about the world's great religions to believe that they all come from the same Source. But I didn't know that my experience wasn't unique. I wasn't familiar with New Age thought (whatever that is) and I still tread carefully in that area.
But I did try to learn to meditate after that. I wasn't satisfied with the techniques that I used with meditation until the right teacher came along.
That teacher is Terry (TO) and I find it funny that he asks me to post "my" method.
On Sunday, October 1, 2000, Bob F ()@165.121.48.15 said:
TO - "Frequency". (Do it frequently, find the right frequency and some day we will see each other there.)Dave R & Hadi - There was a cute movie a while back with James Garner as a river boat gambler (the name escapes me). Anyway, at the end, he and the whole cast sang a great rendition of "Amazing Grace" - it was quite moving.
Namaste'
On Sunday, October 1, 2000, DaveR (Hadi)@209.86.50.241 said:
Hadi, the candor and insight in your posts about Grace and relationships and all the rest have been inspirational. There are so many similarities and so many differences in how our lives have progressed.Now that Cathy has asked you for it, would you favor us with a description of your Unity experience?
Believe it or not, I know exactly what you meant about that abrupt change that occurred with you in the furniture-smashing and seeing yourself in the mirror. I'm sure I can't recall the circumstances in my own experience as well as you have yours, but I know similar things have happened to me. I wouldn't be surprised if all of us could connect with that to some degree. Sometimes changes take protracted periods to be noticed. Other times, they're instantly recognized. Most of mine are the slow kind.
"Amazing Grace" is one of my favorite songs, especially played on the pipes, and I usually choke up hearing it. I choked up reading the words, and at the choice to summarize your relationship with it. Beautiful!
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