After reading - where was it - my first reaction is god! so much hate from all quarters the atheists & the fundies ...
At - Delphi Forum
To the atheist -
Hi, I offer you these words as food-for-thought from an unusual perspective.
I used to HOLD much the same view as you are coming from. I thought all religious people were clinically insane and I couldn't begin to comprehend how they believed what they did. Claims of a "Loving God" seemed ludicrous given what I could see around me. I tried to dismiss them as pathetic or laughable. No argument they could have offered would have persuaded me to budge from these views one inch.
However, I also used to read about spiritual & religious experiences that people had reported and I thought I would be the VERY LAST PERSON on this planet to experience something similar. Well, I was wrong. Totally out-of-the-blue, I experienced what is called a Satori or an Awakening. Such an experience is almost indescribable, though many have tried. In that instant I just KNEW there was a God and that this little three-dimensional plane of existence is merely the surface level of a reality which is more multi-dimensional and multi-faceted than the ordinary mind can begin to imagine. I felt connected to every living creature at a sub-atomic level. To birds. To flowers. To insects. And most of all ... to people. It was like being in love with everybody. I could look into people's eyes and literally see their souls. All the fear, hatred, blame, insecurity, contempt and confusion I had ever felt simply evaporated. As though it was someone else's life. I was quite literally on cloud 9.
Bear in mind, as I said before, up until this moment I was THE most extreme atheist you would ever meet in your entire life. I would often ridicule people's beliefs and I dearly wished for the day when nobody would worship God and nobody would remember that religion ever happened.
You speak about "truth" as though it is an independently verifiable "thing" ... reality is not some fixed state that can be known and nailed down. Logic is useful but it can only take you so far. This thing we call "reality" is being created moment-by-moment by our individual and collective thoughts. Your True Nature is more wondrous and fluid and elusive than you can even begin to imagine. And yes, I know if someone had said these things to me just 15 months ago I would have laughed in their face.
My dearest wish for you is to experience an awakening of the soul such as I experienced. Believe me, the euphoria and bliss that follows is a quantum leap above and beyond ANYTHING that atheistic pursuits can ever hope to simulate. The plain TRUTH is that we each have a soul and it will be forever restless and unsatisfied without a relationship to God. And yes, I used to read similar statements when I was an atheist and PART of me would say "What utter nonsense!" ... while another part of me would say "God! What if that's right?"
I welcome any and everything you would have to say in reaction to this message. Maybe your soul has led you to these words for a reason. :)
One final word, from Neale's book - don't trust anything EXCEPT your own experience. The world and it's major religions would have you think the opposite. I sure would never have "believed" if I hadn't experienced it directly. Now it is no longer a case of "belief". It's like being in love, literally. You can't begin to explain it but you just KNOW.
The funny thing is, I had that awakening experience before I ever read Neale's books. In fact UNTIL I had the experience, you could not have got me to read one of his books if you paid me. Now, I read them and they resonate deeply with me. But as I said before, DON"T take my word for it. Don't even take God's word for it ... until you have experienced it yourself.
Peace~Love~Happiness
Geoff
Also offer link to nde - http://near-death.com/rosenblit.html
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Then the next day, I have second thoughts. Well, that IS the beauty of non-attachment - you learn not to be attached even to your own opinions. What is my motive here ... as someone reminded me recently, there really is only ONE question to ask "What would love do?"
Anyway ...
You have chosen rationality as your religion. That's cool. We're all free to choose whatever we wish to experience. The trouble is that we are NOT rational creatures. The most wonderful aspects of ourselves and our most important experiences are NOT rational. You do not rationally decide to fall-in-love for example. Feelings of awe, wonder, amusement, friendship, glee, bliss, misery, anger, hatred are not BASED on logic or rationality.
There is no RATIONAL proof I can offer you that God exists & that you have a soul. Equally, there is no RATIONAL proof that God does not exist. The agnostic position is the only sensible stance in the absence of any direct, personal experience of God. Atheism is no different in ESSENCE than the fundamentalism it often attacks. Each is a rigid, unbending stance based on fear. The atheist has adopted rationality & logic as his/her religion whereas the fundamentalist has adopted fear as his/her religion. I wait patiently for the day when we all adopt LOVE as our religion.
BTW, there is no ABSOLUTE rational proof that yesterday actually happened. The only thing anyone is SURE of is THIS present moment and THIS present experience. Humanity is slowly evolving even if a look at the evning news would prompt you to think otherwise.
Love to All.
Then I had a look at a section of Conversations With God - "Listen to your feelings. Listen to your Highest Thoughts. Listen to your experience. Whenever one of these differ from what you've been told by your teachers, or read in your books, forget the words. Words are the least reliable purveyor of Truth."
Sent the reply below ...
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Hi again,
Yes, the traditional vengeful God is not one I could ever begin to accept - I was raised as a Catholic but the emphasis on eternal damnation if you drifted off the straight-and-narrow put me right off fundamentalist, dogmatic religion. The God portrayed in Neale's books is one of Love and he makes a POINT of saying what is wrong with all the ways religion has been "taught' over the centuries.
I'm not really sure what "Interpretive patina" actually means. And yes, all ANYONE can possibly comment on is their own experience.
However, the experience I described was one of total-knowing, where I simply had no desire at all to "interpret the experience".
Here we run into the limitations of human language. Like logic it is extremely useful but it can only take you so far.
Here's a section of Neale's book you may find interesting -
"Listen to your feelings. Listen to your Highest Thoughts. Listen to your experience. Whenever one of these differ from what you've been told by your teachers, or read in your books, forget the words. Words are the least reliable purveyor of Truth."
Reading the books, there are really only TWO explanations. Either Neale was talking with God or he is an absolute genius because the way he uses words and the things he has to say about the eternal questions of mankind - love - evil - Heaven - Hell - creation - evolution - reincarnation - karma ... the way he ties it all together is quite magic & inspiring. And given his previous life-history of anger & disappointment & confusion it's a LITTLE difficult to believe he just made it all up on his own! It's actually FAR easier to believe he was talking with God.
Just curious, have you actually read any of his books? If not, I'd be interested to know why you'd bother with a Forum like this. No offence intended of course. Would you describe yourself as an atheist or an agnostic?
Peace.
Geoff.
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Then ... I had a few more thoughts ...
Yes, having been an athiest until recently, it IS amazing how "evangelical" atheists can be. Especially when you consider that even if they are right there is no REAL comfort or hope in that view. I know! I've been there. And t used to infuriate me no end that even though I felt I was absolutely right, my argumnets would have little or no impact on those with this mysterious thing called "faith". Moreover, I realised their beliefs would provide them with more comfort than I would ever experience even if, to me, it was based on ludicrous fairy tales.
Yes, why as an atheist, are you in this Forum? Why do we get so HEATED when confronted with those who don't share our view of things ... There is no real peace-of-mind in the atheist view. Especially if you have loved ones (How DOES an atheist explain the existence of love?) There are some terrible things which happen in this world and there is no deeper meaning to them and they seem to strike at "random" so they are to be feared & avoided & worried about endlessly.
The Good News is that NOTHING is static and your entire picture-of-reality can change in a heartbeat. Love can replace anger & hatred. Peace & serenity can replace fear ...
Conversations With God does go to great pains to re-define (&expand) our concept of God & our relation to God. It paints a radically different picture of reality & Our True Nature than anyhting you'll derive from fundamentalist, dogmatic religions. I'd almost include atheism as one of these! It is a rigid, unbending stance when there is no HARD evidence for it.
Once your soul wakes up, these statments will make a LOT more sense ... :)
There can be no genuine peace-of-mind while indulging in routine acts of judgement & condemnation of others. So, the decision NOT to judge is not really noble or saintly, it's actually pragmatic. It's the first step to enlightenment ...
Then re-read "Messiah Complex" in ET101 - I should transcribe some of that ...
Being Christ and thinking you are Christ are two different matters. If you only think you are Christ, you will then act like you think christ would act, which usually entails trying to save someone.
Let us make one thing very clear: This mission is not about "saving" anyone. All inhabitants of this planet are masters. Even the aliens are masters who are here doing a brilliant job mastering being aliens. Everyone on the planet knows the game and everyone has made their decision. If a person has chosen to continue as a master of limitation, that is their inalienable right. Saving people from their rights is not the intention of this planetary mission.
Do not, in your half-awakened state, and out of misdirected zeal, attempt to "convert" anyone to the choice you have made. Instead be the choice you have made ...
I had forgotten what was in that book - may transcribe more later ...
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Then I wrote a bit more ...
Yet I sent this off the top-o-my-head -
Hi again,
I take your point. I used to say the VERY same things to the believers and was as perplexed as you are when they said "I just know".
I think we may be talking about two different types of "knowing". There is the knowledge of facts which can be verified as you have often pointed out. If I claim that President John F Kennedy is living in my spare bedroom, you're more than likely to regard me as quite crazy since we ALL know he was assassinated in 1963. It is a fact which can be verified.
With talk of God, the soul, what happens after we die, etc these are OBVIOUSLY not as verifiable in the same sense. If they were, we would have but one religion and no atheists because there would be no doubt.
So, if it's HARD proof you are seeking from me or anyone else who has had similar experiences ... there is none I can offer. To me, the experience, the TOTALITY of the experience IS the proof. I cannot actually GIVE you my experience. All I can do is describe it and if you have no similar experience as a reference point then you will not KNOW quite what I am talking about. Just as a woman can describe to me what giving birth is like and I might imagine what it is like but I can't say I KNOW what it is like. (Unless of course I was a woman in my previous life :)
As for reincarnation, if you look at a culture like the Tibetans where reincarnation is an integral part of their world-view, there are many stories which offer substantial evidence that one person is the reincarnation of someone who has died recently. Especially in the selection of the Dalai Lama for example. They find a child who can identify people and possessions from his previous lifetime when there is no RATIONAL explanation for how such a child could know these things as they have not been TOLD to them in this current life. Again, it's still a matter of personal opinion as to how much "proof" is enough proof.
As i said earlier, I think there are two kinds of knowing. One deals with hard facts and events. the other deals with the FAR more important and mysterious aspect of our nature which is feelings and emotions and the yearning of the spirit for a connection with something higher than ourselves.
Anyway, interesting to debate this with you. I fully understand your position since I used to be EXACTLY where you are right now. :)
And I fully realise there's probably nothing I can say that will persuade you intellectually to see things as I do. I wish you well on your journey and may you one day find what you're looking for.
Peace.
Geoff
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A little addenddum to my reply.
I just re-read your message and you seem to be saying "If you can't convince me then your knowledge isn't REAL." That is your prerogative to define things that way but it is merely a personal definition. Like anything worth discussing about human nature, it IS hard to NAIL things down. Actually, I have heard of people who will reduce a debate to a series of definitions. They'll say "define truth" or "define knowledge". I even heard of one person who ended up saying "define define".
To have any meaningful discussion, there has to be at least some general agrement on the ideas & concepts being discussed. I'd be interested to hear what your definitions of the following words are -
- truth
- knowledge
- proof
- experience
- real
They are the sort of words like love, peace, soul, life, joy etc where something inside us JUST knows what the words mean but if somebody asks us for a definition we often struggle to put it into words.
Interesting talking with you. It has got the old brain cells firing ...
Geoff. *************************************************************************************************
Then even more occurs to me on the way to the shops - yes, when surrounded by those on similar wavelength there can be precious little to discuss except our similar experiences & what inspires us. However, to be TRULY respectful & motivated NOT by the NEED to prove a point or evangelicise sure gets the brain ticking over ...
And yes, one could well ask why bother with such a discussion. Does either party TRULY expect the other to be persuaded round to their way of seeing things? As with Tasha, I remember what it was like and know that no amount of words would have got me to budge one millimeter or truly appreciate the other person's point-of-view ...
But I don't let-it-go ... Like it or not, an atheist has a belief system. The belief that certain criteria constitute "proof" or that "knowledge" belongs entirely to the intellectual realm. TRUE knowledge is simply NOT like that. But again, these words will have little meaning until you experience true knowledge ... Wish Only Well ... But I still do get caught up in the process of "proving" a point ...
Having been an atheist, I feel I can make these observations. And it is quite amazing how "evangelical" atheists can be, trying to dissuade people away from their faith & the comfort it provides. I know in my own case the motive was jealousy though I'd have never admitted it! Jealousy because even though I was CERTAIN these beliefs were crazy fairy tales, I knew that people with genuine faith seemed to have a peace-of-mind I had never personally experienced and I knew that my rational arguments would have little or no effect. I had no peace, so I wanted to rob them of theirs. Jealousy is indeed a curse.
And ultimately this discussion may achieve little if anything. We may have to simply "agree to disagree". And that's ok. The sad thing about human history is that discussions frequently degenerate into arguments and point-scoring & even violence. We tend to get all heated up and caught up in establishing who is "right" and who is "wrong" when if we are honest these terms are so nebulous and coloured by personal experience as to be almost meaningless. ???
It IS rare to find people who can TRULY respect a point-of-view that opposes their own. It is of course much easier if you let go of dogmatic stances. :) And having been an atheist, it tends to be as rigid & dogmatic as any of the belief systems it attacks ...
Then I went for another walk ...
BTW, all TRUE religions are the same in essence. That essence is LOVE. If you are an "atheist" simply as a result of never being presented with a picture of God which you can accept, then I would recommend Neale's books. He goes to great lengths to agree with many of your statements about the vengeful God most dogmatic religions describe. The God in Neale's books comes across as having a fabulous sense-of-humour along with a wonderful capacity to inspire and speak directly to the soul. It is certainly a picture of God which was never presented to me while I was an atheist. And indeed it is a picture of God I could never have imagined anyone presenting. The books say things about the nature of God & ourselves I never expected anyone could say. Mankind is evolving and along with that evolution comes a new understanding of Who We really Are and what-on-earth we are doing here. :)
Just out of curiosity, what WOULD constitute sufficient "proof" of the existence of God? If you started to hear God talking to you would you consult a psychiatrist? There's a great quote from Thomas Szasz, "If you talk to God then you are praying. If God talks to you then you have schizophrenia".
I am tempted to ask what would be enough proof if the galaxies, moon, stars, your own miraculous body, the warmth of a sun positioned JUST right for life to flourish on this planet, the birth of a baby, the existence of love ... if these things are not enough hard evidence then what would be ...
I would agree with you that many fundamentalists are NOT great adverts for their beliefs. To profess "love" and then attack & condemn anyone who doesn't share your beliefs is a great way of fostering animosity but won't inspire too many people.
Recommend The Madman
I hope your soul awakens soon. (Soon being a highly relative term :) Once it does, you may look back on this discussion and chuckle and say to yourself "Ah! NOW I know what that lunatic was trying to say!"
Your soul's awakening will open up new experiences which you probly don't even want to think about at the moment (I know from my own atheist days that I used to be very envious when reading accounts of such experiences) -
* Sympathetic Joy - joy in the happiness of others, even if they are complete strangers. Though, to be honest, once your soul awakems you will no longer be able to see anyone as a "stranger".
* Genuine Compassion - which is quite different from its poor cousin pity.
* Nirvana - again this is an experience words can never fully convey. A feeling of transcendent bliss & euphoric connection to the entire universe.
These are experiences I never EVER expected to have myself. However, they are REAL. One could argue they are the only things which are in fact REAL. There are many aspects of human life that defy a rational "explanation". Do you believe in the existence of love? Because I have yet to see a rational scientific proof that love exists. You can see the evidence of it all around you but how can you know love is real unless you have experienced it? Experience is the only real proof. Proof that God exists is a very similar proposition because God is Love. And not 16 months ago i would have bet a billion dollars that those words would never come out of MY mouth. You'll never KNOW God with your mind. You can only know God with your heart & soul. So listen with your heart.
I fully understand if you reply that this is a load of sentimental nonsense. I would have said the same thing myself once. :)
In fact if God does NOT exist then these experiences are even more fantastic! It's easier to believe God does exist.
For someone trying NOT to be drawn into "proving a point" ... Interesting dream last night that my brother (Who is where I was in terms of disdain for reigion & all matters spiritual) I was in his bedroom & he had these HUGE (and I DO mean hu=ge!!) volumes of "Does God exist" all over his bookcases and walls ...
Yes, i sent a message to WOW chat -
Yes, I generally try to avoid the temptation to be evangelical for many reasons. Primarily because I know that no amount of sheer words would ever have coaxed me away from being an atheist. :) However, having been there for such a substantial chunk of my adult existence (this time around) I have enormous compassion for those still anchored to that mentality. I now realise that thoughts play a HUGE part in creating a person's (& a planet's) experiences and that quite simply there are joys which remain inaccessible whilst thinking like a rationalist/atheist. I'm reminded of something I read at the Poetry Shack website (another fabulous site which I found out about due to the Chopra Forum) It's called "The Awakened Eye".
Yes, I honestly would wish I could bottle the experience which caused me to know beyond a shadow of a doubt. I'd give it away freely. Because you JUST know that until you reach that state of simple KNOWING then your experiences will be a pale shadow of what they CAN be and you will be restless & unsatisfied no matter what amount of "succcess" you achieve in worldly terms ...
Actually, to me, the most convincing evidence of God is the way MANY people have had their lives transformed. If God does not exist then these transformations are even more extraordinary. :)
Does it REALLY matter who is "right" & who is "wrong"? At the end of the day the ONLY thing that characterises a human lifetime is the quality of the person's experiences. You may be a joyous atheist. If so, you'd be the first onee I've met. I genuinely wish you will soon experience the Truth of your Existence. I know this may infuriate you, but those of us who have experienced this Truth, the experience is all the "proof" we need. In fact your thinking evolves beyond the rigid framework that seeks intellectual "proof".
At 5 AM - Do you really imagine that on your death bed you will look back fondly on your life and think "Ah! I beat ALL those religious folks in every debate. I am the winner. I have absolute proof that God does not exist!"
I can understand your reaction to fundamentalists and dogma. However, it would be a shame to reject all thoughts of God simply because the only picture anyone has presented you with is one you can't accept. I might add that it is a picture of God I do not accept either. Nor does God himself - as he goes to great lengths to explain in Neale's books.
Christianity has acquired a bad name mainly due to intolerant fundamentalists. Few of them truly seem to be living as Christ lived and loving as Christ loved. I don't recall Jesus going around condemning people to Hell. In fact far from it. While being cruxified, He could still say "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." You'd struggle to find a more remarkable example of unconditional love anywhere. Many more examples are given in Neale's books.
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Hi again,
Just a few more thoughts off the top-of-my-head. A couple more questions occur to me. This is actually the first real "debate" I've had since recovering from being an atheist so it feels uncanny. It is like talking to my former self - a bit like one of those sci-fi movies about time travel. I have knowledge & experiences that my former self can't really begin to imagine so in a sense I may be wasting my breath but it's an interesting exercise anyhow.
What if the "ultimate truth" is something which is not an intellectual entity at all? What if real truth is something that has to be directly experienced to be "known"? In that case, no amount of exchange of words (and from the looks of many debates around here it is mainly insults & animosity which are really being exchanged) will ever come close to settling the issue. So, in a very real sense, all such discussions between polar opposite points-of-view are pointless since neither party listens with an truly open mind let alone endeavouring to truly respect the other's opinion.
I'll admit it remains a puzzle to me why some people should be recipients of experiences which leave them in no doubt while others are not. It is quite a conundrum. No less a conundrum though than the many faced by atheists. I know. I've been there. Consciousness, Awareness, Imagination, Love, Kindness, Compassion, Inspiration, Human Emotions ... all of these are a real bugger to explain in rational, scientific terms. They're damn near impossible to define let alone explain. Do you believe in the existence of Love? Because I have YET to see a rational, scientific proof that love exists. In fact, unless or until you DO experience it, you may even question whether it truly exists. So, here is one phenomenon where direct experience is the ONLY real proof that it exists. Love. Yes, love. A tough one for atheists to explain. Yet, without it most atheists would probably never have been conceived.
I'd hate for this to degenerate into a point-scoring exercise, which the VAST majority of discussions I have ever witnessed have become. We get so caught up in "proving a point" or establishing who is "right" and who is "wrong". It's what has made human history the sad chronicle that it is. And I have to question my OWN motives for engaging in such a debate. Am I really acting from love or trying to "prove my point"? And I have to laugh really because having been an "atheiist" myself, even if I felt i had "won" the argument there was precious little satisfaction in the "victory" as I knew that those with faith would be highly unlikely to shed their beliefs due to any words I might utter. I would never have admitted this while I was an atheist but the motive was simple jealousy. There's no true peace-of-mind whatsoever in the atheist view, so I felt moved to try and rob everyone else of their peace-of-mind. Jealousy is indeed a curse.
The good news is that it need not be this way. The universe we live in is indeed governed by Laws. We are truly Creative Beings. Our thoughts create our experiences. I now experience joys which were utterly inaccessible to me while I was thinking like a rationalist/atheist. However, I still remember the joyless existence I lived as an atheist. So, I feel genuinely moved to wish that all beings should experience equal joy. The Law of Karma is very Real. What you send out returns to you. I know as an atheist, I too used to send out all manner of anger, ridicule, insults & hatred to those who had the audacity to hold different beliefs from mine. In the end, one day arrives when the penny drops and you realise the ONLY person you're harming is yourself. I hope that day arrives for all atheists as soon as possible. Or at least try to be a joyous atheist. It may not be feasible. I certainly never managed it. :)
Peace.
Geoff.
P.S. You might be pleasantly surprised if you ever do read Neale's books. He had much the same distaste of dogmatic religions and in fact his books began with him dashing off a very angry letter to "God" about his life and the state of the world. He was astonished when God replied by asking "Do you really want an answer to all these questions or are you just venting?"
For instance here is a passage I have just been re-reading: "There are those who say I have given you free will, yet these same people claim that if you do not obey Me, I will send you to Hell. What kind of free will is that? Does this not make a mockery of God - to say nothing of any sort of true relationship between us?"
Yes, it used to absolutely flummox me how anyone could claim to "love" God. I could understand fearing a being that could sentence me to eternal torment but love? No way. I think many who call themselves atheists are reactionary atheists as I used to be. The only picture of God they have been exposed to is a vengeful one and something inside them rejects that picture and concludes God does not exist. The picture of God in Neale's books bears little or no resemblance to the God most atheists have rejected. He is not the least bit dogmatic, has a profound sense of humour & fun (something sadly lacking from fundamentalist religions) and paints an inspiring description of our True Nature and what-on-earth we are doing HERE.
Namaste.
BTW, That final word is a Sanskrit greeting meaning "I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides. I honor the place in you, where lies your love, your light, your truth and your beauty. I honor the place in you where...if you are in that place in you...and I am in that place in me....then there is only one of us."
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And would you believe in all that ranting, I aint mentioned Heaven & Hell once -
They have been misunderstood fro centuries. They are not PLACES you are consigned to AFTER you die. They are states of being that are created in the HERE & NOW. Hell is (get quote from book about separation from God and that it is simply impossible to know true happiness while your soul is starving.) ...
Yes, just as there are physical Laws such as Gravity & the fact that you cannot move faster than the speed of light, there are Spiritual Laws. Note: these are not laws in the sense of society's laws about crime and punishment. They are more along the lines of cause-and-effect. You simply cannot hope to create genuine happiness while HOLDING ONTO any of the following - blame, anger, hatred, animosity, fear etc.
Any genuine spiritual path seeks to understand our True Nature with a view to improving the quality of our experiences. Merely wishing to be "right" is insufficient incentive to make any real progress.
Mention the website and other links ... I mean I don't honestly expect an atheist to say Ah, Geoff, now I have seen the light ... but anything's possible. I should know. My own transformation is way stranger than fiction ...
Back to the question of "proof" ... Replace the word "God" with the word "Love". Let's assume you have no trouble believing that love exists. On second thoughts, let's ask what hard "evidence" there is that love exists. Is the existence of love something we can establish beyond doubt? Sure you can read poems and people's stories about love. There's no shortage of material there. You can even watch people who claim to be in love. However, you can still turn around and say "I don't believe love exists. It's ALL in their imaginations. It's all a silly fantasy."
This raises an interesting question. Is something which exists purely in the imagination any less "real" than all the other things we call "real"? Is an experience "real" in any verifiable sense? What is the imagination anyway?
Sure there is factual knowledge such as who was the third president or what did Julius Caesar like to spread on his toast. But what value is such knowledge? How verifiable is it? What value is it to me? ZERO. The only knowledge I am interested in is knowledge of my own Nature and how to enhance my experiences and those of the people around me.
I remember we had this teacher at school who said there no doubt were intellectuals with brilliant minds who could run rings around him in any debate and prove conclusively that his beliefs were "wrong". However, at the end of the day he said it would make no difference. He would still KNOW that God exists. This stuck in my mind even though at the time I was in the process of losing my religion and I thought he was a nut!
This next question may floor you - it certainly is one which was never posed to me when I was an atheist. "Would you rather be right or happy?" It is a profound question because all the HEAT in debates is the result of fixating on this mythical state of "being right". If your views are causing you grief why hold onto them. Signs of grief - anger, animosity, the need to ridicule opposing views, etc etc ...
Then after all that ... how much is left to say ...
Well, I decide to open a new thread called "The cure for atheism" as it is somewhat restricting merely REPLYING to a view I nce shared but have since seen the light. click here - if I remeber to upload it - notes for what to say in my thread ... for those whose minds (& hearts) are open who may also read the thread as I realise atheism is an entrenched position as I know from bitter personal experience. Once you see the light the first reaction is relief, the next is the desire to "rescue" those still trapped (and yes, I remember what ET101 says but still ...
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And as if that's not enuf - here's some notes I scribbled down a couple of days ago ...
Of course, you may say it is all in my imagination. But taht raises more questions than it settles. What is the imagination? What is an experience? Who is having these experiences? Where do our thoughts originate? What is a thought? What is consciousness? Where does it originate? Not to mention our